# VW Dieselgate could lead to CRIMINAL Charges **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262 "2015-09-24T20:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/1 "2015-09-24T20:09:26Z")
“VW admitted systematically cheating on U.S. air pollution tests for years, the Environmental Protection Agency announced Friday in citing violations that could add up to $18 billion in fines. The company said it has also heard from the Justice Department, which the EPA said could pursue criminal prosecution.” This is not going to go away… ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/2 "2015-09-24T20:15:21Z")
And that’s just the US, only 5% of the total vehicles involved. The $18B could become much larger once criminal fines, lawsuits, and (especially) the European side of this fully comes to roost. ---
**Author:** ![ken\_green](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/ken_green/32/816_2.png) [@ken\_green](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ken_green)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/3 "2015-09-24T21:00:06Z")
Then comes the blame game which will drag this all out for 20 tears. Who wrote the software ? who ordered the software ? Who designed the software ? Who among those full well knew the purpose of said software ? ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/4 "2015-09-24T21:13:47Z")
**^** The typical strategy followed by prosecutors is to find the weakest links in the chain of command, and offer them a greatly-reduced sentence–provided that they “sing” by _Turning State’s Evidence_. This tactic frequently also leads to “lost” documents being miraculously… found. Trust me…if the prosecutors in the US and in Europe are on their toes, they will know how to expedite the process via the testimony of a small number of key VW employees who are eager to lessen their own penalties. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/5 "2015-09-24T21:14:52Z")
Welcome to ExhaustGate. I wonder if this will spell the end of OBD boundary scans for compliance testing and bring back the widespread use of treadmills- now expanded to handle both axles. The circle of trust has been broken… ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/6 "2015-09-24T21:36:13Z")
" wonder if this will spell the end of OBD boundary scans for compliance testing and bring back the widespread use of treadmills- now expanded to handle both axles." I don’t think that’ll happen. What will happen is eliminating or greatly reducing the ‘self certification’ by the carmakers, plus the addition of ‘real world’ testing programs by the EPA. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/7 "2015-09-24T22:58:01Z")
The EPA doesn’t go out into the real world to sample cars. They ask the manufacturer to submit cars for testing. Then they return them when done. So what’s to stop the next unscrupulous manufacturer from submitting samples that are different from the real world population? Again, the circle of trust has been broken. The only 100% solution is to test all vehicles, not some potentially salted sample… ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/8 "2015-09-24T23:06:05Z")
We can’t afford, nor do we need, to test every single car that comes off the assembly line. My guess: the ‘self certification’ will be changed, with ‘real world’ testing of the majority of the makes and models as part of the (now larger, unfortunately) EPA’s certification program, followed up by random EPA testing of cars from dealers. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/9 "2015-09-24T23:09:59Z")
It SHOULD lead to criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/10 "2015-09-24T23:28:21Z")
> It SHOULD lead to criminal charges. Hmmmm… About 500k cars (+/-) in the US, to me that looks like at least 500k (+/-) of defrauding the federal government. Plus any other charges they can come up with, for this intentional act of deceit. The more the better as far as I am concerned. The only way to change the mentality of a large corporation is to hit them in the wallet. ---
**Author:** ![missileman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/missileman/32/1366_2.png) [@missileman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/missileman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/11 "2015-09-24T23:28:27Z")
**“We can’t afford, nor do we need, to test every single car that comes off the assembly line.”** I’ll go even further. States that require an annual certification or smog check should waive vehicles that are fairly new…say 5 years. After that…testing should be done on a random basis using the number of failures per year as a gauge. I’ve heard the number is less than 10% so most testing is just putting money into the pockets of the states anyway. Total waste of time and money in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/12 "2015-09-24T23:41:03Z")
Yeah throw them all in jail right down to the guys on the assembly line. Along with the thugs and murderers, and drug dealers and tax cheats. Better yet nationalize all the corporations and give the profits to the workers. That’ll fix 'em. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/13 "2015-09-24T23:55:26Z")
> **The only way to change the mentality of a large corporation is to hit them in the wallet.** I don’t think the fines is doing t alone. Start sending a message to these large corporations that this type if deception will no longer be tolerated. Start sending a few execs to jail for several years. Just yesterday the CEO of a peanut factory was sentenced to 26 years in prison for knowingly selling tainted peanut butter…GREAT… ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/14 "2015-09-25T00:04:09Z")
MD uses the OBD-II test, but requires tailpipe testing every few years. No one skates by with only the OBD-II scans. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/15 "2015-09-25T00:05:39Z")
Well, people died from the tainted peanut butter and it was shipped after the lab test came back and showed it was tainted. A little different than increased emissions leading to greater engine efficiency and fuel economy. Now should I mention what’s on that imported lettuce and tomatoes we get year round? Think in terms of human fertilizer. So wash well and peel the skins. The little guy from Georgia is just the tip of the iceberg in the global food supply chain. Of course ya all realize that the long term goal of the EPA is the elimination of the IC engine in favor of electric or mass transit. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/16 "2015-09-25T00:06:17Z")
NH uses the OBD-II test. No other testing. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/17 "2015-09-25T00:09:03Z")
Besides fines, there is little that the US Government can do to corporations headquartered overseas. Jail sentences are up to the German government. High fines can prevent further gamesmanship like this. If the current management costs the company enough in fines, the owners (shareholders) will change the management. Hopefully there is an out for golden parachutes if the fired manager has one. ---
**Author:** ![meanjoe75fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meanjoe75fan/32/552_2.png) [@meanjoe75fan](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meanjoe75fan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/18 "2015-09-25T00:28:35Z")
> Jail sentences are up to the German government. No, a non-citizen can and will be tried for crimes committed in a second country. They get apprehended when they set foot in the US...or, conceivably via extradition. The US, if inclined, could put out warrants--that, at the very least, would serve as a "stay the heck out of the USA" sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/19 "2015-09-25T00:44:55Z")
VW was, apparently, desperate to reestablish its presence in the U.S. The last really successful VW product was the VW Beetle of the late 1950s through the mid 1970s. A VW comeback would be beneficial to its workers. The diesel VWs were arather unique product in this country and were racking up sales. I find VWs action despicable, but for a while before being caught, it did benefit VW’s workers. On the other hand, GM, to save a few cents per car, bought cheap ignition switches from a foreign manufacturer. This action certainly didn’t benefit GM’s workers. I really don’ t know which of the actions is more despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262/20 "2015-09-25T01:04:30Z")
Ford has been fined in the past for incorrectly conducting emission tests. The VW case raises the fraud perpetrated to a new level. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/vw-dieselgate-could-lead-to-criminal-charges/91262.md?page=2)