# Upside Down Now **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014 "2022-07-02T16:50:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/1 "2022-07-02T16:50:46Z")
I have been wanting to look at a Ford Maverick truck in person . Not sure if it would be something I could use . The small bed might be the thing I can’t live with . I just have not seen any near me that were a color I would have. That said a dealer in Tulsa , Oklahoma had one on their web site. It was the XLT Lariat with a sticker price of 32000.00 and an Additional 10000.00 dealer add-on. The other part that looked bad was the web said it was the Hybrid version but the window sticker on line shows the straight gas version . Of course someone will buy it but not me. ---
**Author:** ![Cavell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cavell/32/43396_2.png) [@Cavell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cavell)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/2 "2022-07-02T17:14:07Z")
Paying markup makes buyer upside down? Uh, you could sell it in 6 months for what you paid. Or more. It’s not worth $32k. It’s worth $42k. Or, whatever a rube thinks it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/3 "2022-07-02T17:51:39Z")
> [@Cavell](#): > > Paying markup makes buyer upside down? It certainly does. The insurable equity in the vehicle is based upon its original MSRP and depreciation over time. If an accident occurs, even if the other driver is 100%, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt at fault, their insurance isn’t going to pay more than MSRP less depreciation for your losses, period. The fact that you paid additional dealer markup, or other BS fees on top of the purchase price is **not** their concern. > [@Cavell](#): > > Uh, you could sell it in 6 months for what you paid. Or more. It’s not worth $32k. It’s worth $42k. The thing is, the vehicle is _not_ worth $42k new, and it’s not worth even $32k anymore for purposes of insurance, once it’s used. **The way dealers game the system right now, the out-the-door price might be $42k for this vehicle with a $32k MSRP _but officially, the vehicle itself costs $32k, and you are paying $10k for the “opportunity” to buy the vehicle for $32k._** This $10k is _literally up in smoke the moment you sign the contract_–it does not translate into equity in the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/4 "2022-07-02T17:57:49Z")
Anyone who does buy this marked up vehicle had better purchase GAP insurance. ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/5 "2022-07-02T18:10:20Z")
Something is worth what people will pay for it. I have no issue with dealers marking up the price of a car if people are buying them at that price. In the long run, raising prices of new cars also increases the value of the 15 year old car I drive. I don’t think ground beef is worth $6.99/lb but if that’s what it’s selling for then that’s what I have to pay. I don’t think a house is worth $750K, but I need a place to live and I can’t find a similar one for less so that’s the price I have to pay. Gas prices, same thing… Problems arise when you overleverage yourself into unrecoverable debt. I may have overpaid for a car or a house, but I’ve never been upside down or needed gap insurance. ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/6 "2022-07-02T18:20:00Z")
I have changed my diet, and our family’s menu in response to inflation, and I would certainly change my location if housing costs got too high as well. What something is “worth” to me as a percentage of my weekly/monthly pay is pretty much set in stone, and if prices skyrocket due to other fools who are willing to overpay, then guess what? I look for a substitute or do without. I won’t pay more than I feel something is worth, period. ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/7 "2022-07-02T18:31:36Z")
That’s perfect, exactly the way it should be. If enough people like you refuse to pay 40K for a 30K car, prices will start to drop. The problem is we all value different things. There are any number of things which I place little or no value on that others find important. I regularly saw customers pay $1500 or more to repair their car A/C. For me, anything more than $200 and I will just roll the window down. As for changing my diet, I could certainly stand to do that, but not for financial reasons… ---
**Author:** ![Renegade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Renegade](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Renegade)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/8 "2022-07-02T18:44:55Z")
That’s perfect, exactly the way it should be. If enough people like you refuse to pay 40K for a 30K car, prices will start to drop. The problem with that is there are to many people with more $$ than sense. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/9 "2022-07-02T20:51:01Z")
Like I said, they are in short supply. So the laws of supply and demand again. Raise supply, reduce price, reduce supply raise price. We pay more for gold than dirt because of supply and demand. My BIL has had one on order for over 8 months now. No word when it will be delivered. He’s a Ford fan. Ordered it on the last day that the dealer was allowed to place more orders. We talked about the short bed but said it has an extention for the box or something to allow hauling lager items. Seems happy with the vehicle so who knows? I never asked about fire potential from the batteries. Kind of sensitive since he already had a major fire from another Ford product. I don’t know what he paid but I was surprised at the lower MSRP. Hope he likes it. I might like it myself if conditions were right. Fire in a garage is a big deal to me though. A few weeks ago, a house in town had a substantial fire from a lithium Ion battery being charged in the bedroom and caught fire. According to the fire department. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/10 "2022-07-03T01:34:36Z")
I guess that dealer adding on 10000.00 is a good move . Just for fun I put Ford Maverick truck in the Carmax web site . There are quite a few 2022 Maverick with less than 5000 miles all listed for a lot over the original sticker price . ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/11 "2022-07-03T03:34:11Z")
> [@bing](#): > > My BIL has had one on order for over 8 months now. No word when it will be delivered. He’s a Ford fan. Ordered it on the last day that the dealer was allowed to place more orders. We talked about the short bed but said it has an extention for the box or something to allow hauling lager items. > > Seems happy with the vehicle so who knows? I never asked about fire potential from the batteries. Sounds like your BIL may have ordered a Ford Maverick hybrid . . . ? ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/12 "2022-07-03T03:46:32Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > The insurable equity in the vehicle is based upon its original MSRP and depreciation over time. If an accident occurs, even if the other driver is 100%, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt at fault, their insurance isn’t going to pay more than MSRP less depreciation for your losses, period. This depends on the type of add-ons. Many add-ons are nothing more than fluff or insurance plans. Accessory add-ons can add value to the vehicle, trailer hitch, bed liner, DVD players, etc. Custom wheels can be a wash unless the vehicle came with plastic wheel covers. ---
**Author:** ![oldtimer-11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e79b87/32.png) [@oldtimer-11](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldtimer-11)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/13 "2022-07-03T05:19:37Z")
My 2012 Camry only has 59000 miles and shows no signs of rust yet. Unless someone totals it, I have no desire to replace it in todays overheated market. I will hang on to my 500+ mile range, 5 minute refill car indefinitely while I see how well the EV rollout works. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 5:44am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/14 "2022-07-03T05:44:07Z")
Yup that he did. Said the engine kicks in at 45. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/15 "2022-07-03T12:39:44Z")
> [@bing](#): > > My BIL has had one on order for over 8 months now. No word when it will be delivered. While I think he may be exaggerating a bit, a neighbor told me that he placed an order for a Corvette in July, 2021, and was recently informed that his _midlife crisis car_ will be delivered approximately 18 months after he placed the order. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Purebred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/purebred/32/46796_2.png) [@Purebred](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Purebred)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/16 "2022-07-03T13:15:59Z")
The dealership I go to had a Maverick (already purchased) sitting there. I can see the appeal for a certain segment of the market. Appeared to have a roomier interior than I had imagined from photos I had seen online. Bed is small, but fine to haul bags of potting soil, beach gear, etc. As for dealer markup. In the 70s VW introduced a diesel to the American market. Stickers had a line listing ADP, $1000.00. ADP—Additional Dealer Price. People bought them, this was during the oil embargo. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/17 "2022-07-03T13:31:22Z")
> [@Purebred](#): > > As for dealer markup. I in the 70s VW introduced a diesel to the American market. Stickers had a line listing ADP, $1000.00. > ADP—Additional Dealer Price. > People bought them, this was during the oil embargo. … and, if you convert $1k in 1974 dollars to current currency buying power, that would equal close to a $6k markup. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/18 "2022-07-03T15:36:27Z")
Here’s my question on the dealer markup (or high house prices, or anything else that you’d probably finance in order to purchase). Let’s assume these supply chain issues, or chip shortages, or inflation, or whatever is behind the high prices is temporary. If you purchase the vehicle mentioned here, for example. You buy it for $42k, MSRP is $32k, when the market corrects (due to raising interest rates, increased production, or whatever), will you not eventually owe at least $10k more than the vehicle is worth at some point? Same thing with buying a house right now. Either this is going to happen at some point or the high prices are not a temporary issue. Neither seems like a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/19 "2022-07-03T15:53:21Z")
> [@Scrapyard-John](#): > > If you purchase the vehicle mentioned here, for example. You buy it for $42k, MSRP is $32k, when the market corrects (due to raising interest rates, increased production, or whatever), will you not eventually owe at least $10k more than the vehicle is worth at some point? Same thing with buying a house right now. Well, of course. Isn’t that the very point of this discussion? Common sense dictates that although shortages and speculation can drive up prices _in the short-term_, the fact remains that people only earn so much money, and can only pay so much money on an ongoing basis. Therefore, since incomes have only risen by about 10% over the past two years, while housing costs have doubled and vehicle costs have risen by 30%, it stands to reason that these increases are _not_ sustainable. Prices will ultimately come crashing down! ---
**Author:** ![weekend-warrior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/weekend-warrior/32/26122_2.png) [@weekend-warrior](https://community.cartalk.com/u/weekend-warrior)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014/20 "2022-07-03T18:20:43Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > While I think he may be exaggerating a bit He is not. most people who ordered the new C8 waited a year on average some more. Now the dealers are saying 12-18 months. I was going to order one but can’t wait that long. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/upside-down-now/185014.md?page=2)