Universal Technical Institute

Maintenance/Repairs
21

@ok4450 “If a newly minted UTI mechanic such as myself can earn anywhere near a 100 grand as you claim then why are you, the mechanically astute mechanic instructor, standing in front of us teaching for a salary nowhere near a 100k a year?”.

Because banging out $100k a year flat-rate (like that ever happens!) takes such a toll on the body and mind with all the stress, pressure, 65 hour weeks and the like that by the time a guy is 45 years old he just can’t do it anymore.

Also I wonder if UTI informs students that dealership flat-rate mechanics are legally excluded from things like overtime pay, paid holidays, sick time, vacation, medical, etc. and give them a realistic idea of tool and equipment expenditures.

As to whether the students are competent technicians upon completion of the program, the answer is no. They may be educated and have the potential to be great mechanics, but just as a guy fresh out of law school, medical school, or business college may one day be a great lawyer, surgeon, or accountant, it takes experience to excel in your chosen field.

ASE tests are a sign that a technician cares enough about the image of the industry to be certified by a leading organization and is confident enough to be tested. UTI may prep students to pass ASE tests, but that is just an indicator of potential ability, not a measure of one’s ability to actually fix a car. Just like the SATs, there is an entire industry devoted to helping people pass ASE tests. A competent mechanic should be able to pass all the tests without any prep or studying. But in the end ASE just means Ask Someone Else (says the ASE Master Certified Tech). :slight_smile:

I wonder, how many of the professionals here started out at a tech school vs. working at a garage under the tutelage of other good mechanics.

22

@Mike, oh yeah, I know the tests exist. They’re just not given in pulbic high schools. :wink:

@VDC, good for you for giving that test on your own time. My dad did guidance counselling at the private school where he taught, and they did not give aptitude tests, but at least he tried fo help his students with college choices, etc. But it’s a crying shame that tests like the ASVAB aren’t more widely used in high schools.

23

@jesmed–
If most people realized how much unpaid time that I devoted to…simply trying to keep up after staff cut-backs…and working with my students, I think that they would be amazed.

When the custodians would come through after school to do their cursory sweeping, very often one of them would make some winking remark about me being there “to collect overtime”. In reality, unlike the custodians, I received no pay whatsoever for the 60-90 minutes of extra time that I would spend in my office after school on a daily basis. That, of course, does not count the time that I spent at home on take-home work.

And then we have my…maximum…15 minute lunches and no coffee breaks for the last 5 years or so that I worked. When I hear people (like our esteemed governor, Chris Christie) talk about “lazy” educators, it makes my blood boil.

And, yes, the ASVAB is available–if people would simply request that it be administered.

24

Yes, hats off to teachers everywhere. My dad was woefully underpaid and worked unpaid “overtime” anyway, as most teachers do.

25
I received no pay whatsoever for the 60-90 minutes of extra time that I would spend in my office after school on a daily basis. That, of course, does not count the time that I spent at home on take-home work.

It’s called salary. And like many professions - it’s the norm to put a lot of hours. The engineers that work for me average 50 hours a week. Sometimes we have crunch time to fix a deadline…or there’s an emergency…and we put 80+ hours a week. We try to keep that to a minimal. My first year as Director for engineering I was averaging 70 hours a week…EVERY WEEK…Sometimes more then 90 hours.

I’m NOT putting down teachers. In fact I think their pay (especially here in NH) is pitiful for the job and hours they do…and putting up with teenagers. NOT for me.

26

If I were a young aspiring mechanic, I would look to a public community college vocational program* for my training. Even if I wanted to be a motorcycle mechanic, I would rather go to a community college automotive program than a private school specifically designed for motorcycles. Those private schools lack accountability, and they definitely cost more.

27

@MikeInNH–You left out a very significant part of the equation if you are comparing the work hours and compensation of teachers and those who work in private industry, namely year-end bonuses, profit-sharing plans, and other lucrative perks that do not exist for educators.

No matter how many hours of my own time that I devoted to trying to maintain excellence, there was no monetary reward–unlike what can be expected at year’s end with many (or perhaps most?) private firms.

The only “recognition” that I ever received for my usual long hours was on one of the VERY rare occasions when I was leaving the office at the time I was allowed to leave, as a result of a medical appointment.
What was the recognition that I received?
The principal asked me, "Why are you leaving early?"
Nice, huh?

28

Frank McCourt who wrote “Angela’s Ashes” wrote a sequel, “Teacher Man,” about his career teaching in the NY City public schools and the abuse he received from students and administrators alike. It was a rough life.

29
You left out a very significant part of the equation if you are comparing the work hours and compensation of teachers and those who work in private industry, namely year-end bonuses, profit-sharing plans, and other lucrative perks that do not exist for educators

MOST companies do NOT give out profit-sharing plans. Bonuses - Very very rare. I have a few friends that work at Oracle and HP…they haven’t had bonuses EVER…and haven’t seen a raise in 15 years.

Yes SOME companies to have those perks…but MOST do not.

30

Those who can, do.
Those who can’t do, teach.
Those who can’t teach, administrate.

The for profit schools actually make most of their money from dropouts, not graduates. They charge for the degree up front, which means the whole two or four years of tuition paid up front through student loans. If the student gets fed up and drops out, he still owes the bank, the school already has their money.

31

Those who can, do.
Those who can’t do, teach.
Those who can’t teach, administrate.
Those who can’t as administrate, go into politics

32
You left out a very significant part of the equation if you are comparing the work hours and compensation of teachers and those who work in private industry, namely year-end bonuses, profit-sharing plans, and other lucrative perks that do not exist for educators

Teachers job security is pretty good. Back in the 80s and into the 90’s I was with the second largest computer company in the world. At their peak they had over 190k employees. That company no longer exists today. I’ve been with 3 other companies that are no longer around. The job market has been good…but sometimes it’s nice not to go looking for a job. Especially now since I’m 60. My Sister-in-law and her Husband have been teachers at the same school for over 40 years. I haven’ had a job in the same town for more then 5.

33

“Frank McCourt who wrote “Angela’s Ashes” wrote a sequel, “Teacher Man,” about his career teaching in the NY City public schools and the abuse he received from students and administrators alike. It was a rough life.”

Amen, @jesmed, amen!

One of the reasons why I took early retirement was because I got tired of seeing my colleagues taken out of the building–bloodied–on a stretcher, after intervening in fights and getting clocked by one or both of the students. Over a period of ~6 years, we went from having…perhaps…one fist fight every few months to having at least one each day.

And, the principal, who essentially hid in his office, made it very clear that we had to intervene in the event of a fight, lest he move for our dismissal. Hence, all of the bloodied staff members. Because that was not what I went into education for, I opted to take early retirement–at greatly reduced benefits.

And, since my retirement, it has not gotten any better:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/students-9-and-12-arrested-for-allegedly-poisoning-teacher/

34

Wow, that’s terrible. Even Frank McCourt never got beaten up, I don’t think. And definitely not rat poisoned. That’s unbelievable.

35

I’m going to go off topic and rant . . .

“A competent mechanic should be able to pass all the tests without any prep or studying”

In that case, I’ll admit I’m incompetent, because I always study for my ASE exams

As a matter of fact, there have been several cases where I was presented with a problem or a repair, which was new to me. Yet I knew exactly what to do, because I had studied it in a book, maybe even years earlier. My diagnosis was perfect, as was the repair.

It’s okay to admit to cracking open a book

The world will not think less of you

By the way, I’ve worked with several mechanics over the years, who could have been much better, if only they cracked open some auto textbooks, on their own time.

Not everybody was born with motor oil running in their vanes. Not everybody had a dad that owned an auto shop. Not everybody had an older brother who was always tinkering with cars. I had none of that. In fact, my high school aptitude test indicated I would not be a good mechanic

When I washed out of college, 20 years ago, I had to figure out what to do with my life. I enrolled in an auto mechanic’s apprentice program in Germany. I had to be taught everything, as I was a blank slate, as far as cars were concerned.

Several years back, I took the civil service exam for my current job. There was a job announcement, that the exam would be a mere 2 weeks in the future. Because I had been continuously studying for ASE exams and recerts, everything was still fresh in my mind. I spent some time reviewing my notes . . . I keep a folder with notes, drawings, graphs, charts, etc. for every ASE exam that I have studied for . . . and showed up to the exam feeling pretty good. The test went pretty well, and I was one of the first ones to finish. I spent a few minutes reviewing my answers, then handed it off to the administrator. I saw a LOT of guys struggling during the exam. I suspect they showed up cold turkey, having done no studying at all.

I got a letter in the mail, saying my score for the exam was 85 . . . a solid score, nothing to be ashamed of . . . and I need to go for a panel interview. A few days after the interview, I was informed I would be hired.

I suppose that score of 85 was not truly indicative of my abilities, because I studied

I suppose my various ASE credentials are not truly indicative of my abilities, because I studied

I strongly feel people should study for exams, not only to increase their chances of passing, but also to increase their chance of getting a good score

Not to mention that the act of studying might teach you a few things, or at least refresh your memory

I don’t mean this as an attack . . . I just have a very strong opinion on this subject

36

“A competent mechanic should be able to pass all the tests without any prep or studying”

Anyone who can pass all the tests without any prep or studying has had a great deal of prep and studying, and probably also experience, before even scheduling him/herself for the tests. Talent is innate. Knowledge is not. The only exceptions might be kids who grew up in their dad’s active garage, like perhaps the Roush kids if there are any. And I’ll bet that if there are kids in that family, dad made them go to school too. Probably engineering schools.

I know nothing about the Roush family, but you get the idea.

37

@db4690‌ I don’t see it as an attack, but I too have a strong opinion on the matter. And that is that if you need study guides, books, sample tests, and hours of prep time to pass the test, then you probably shouldn’t be taking the test in the first place, or you should take it and fail and learn where your weaknesses are.

Many schools teach to the test, meaning that for example an auto tech program will claim that upon completion you will be ready to take and pass all 8 ASE mechanical tests. But passing the test really isn’t the point, is it? Fixing cars is the point. And you know as well as I do that wearing the patch on your sleeve means you passed the test but doesn’t necessarily mean you can fix cars. A guy who’s at the top of his game should be able to pass an ASE test in his area of work without any trouble.

We should study, learn, examine, talk, read, and listen to become better at what we do, not just to pass a test, but as an end in itself. I would never imply that your ASE credentials are not indicative of your abilities because you studied for the test. I do however have a problem with people who study for the test and then never crack a book, trade mag, website, forum, or anything else until it’s time for the next test. The moment you stop learning more about your particular business is the moment you become irrelevant.

38

VERY well written ASE. A tip of the hat to you.

But the test is also important when seeking employment. Someone seeking a career in the field should keep that in mind. There are good lawyers and bad lawyers, but nobody can even be one until they pass the bar exam. And it would be very rare in today’s word to get hired as a mechanic without the patch.

Perhaps the best approach would be to ask the advice of local shops on where the best programs are in one’s particular region. I wish I’d thought to say that in my original post. I may be guilty of giving bad advice there. Or at least of giving advice that was too easily misunderstood.

39

If I’m paying a fee to take those tests, I’m going to make sure I do my best

You pass the exam based on the knowledge in your head at the time of the exam

That is really the bottom line

I don’t brag about my credentials to my colleagues . . . they can see if I’ve got what it takes

I really resent the implication that I shouldn’t be taking the tests, because I might not be ready

Studying does not necessarily imply I’m not ready

But I must be doing something right . . . I never stop reading automotive stuff in between exams. There are several automotive websites which I visit regularly, which are geared towards the pros.
I’m definitely one of those guys that is always learning

Let me get this straight

Learning is good

But studying is bad . . . because the grade won’t reflect your true knowledge and/or ability

I’m afraid we won’t see eye to eye on this one

And I’ll repeat what I said in my earlier rant. The act of reading those books . . . studying . . . gave me valuable knowledge, which I then use in the shop

By the way . . . I passed all my various ASE exams, 14 current, I believe . . . without attending any of those prep classes. I may be smarter than some, because I did it on my own, without the benefit of a classroom instructor. Or maybe I’m just a cheapskate, and I did it on my own because I wanted to spend the money on beer instead

40

I think I’m being misunderstood.

I’m an enthusiastic advocate of learning.
I’m an enthusiastic advocate of studying (see definition below).
I’m an advocate of third party credentialing, but know very well its weaknesses.
I’m NOT an advocate of studying for the purpose of taking an exam. It was never my intent to suggest that the exam should be the goal of going to any school.

When I say studying I mean studying as in doing the research and reading and experimenting and hands-on learning to really understand how and why something works. I do NOT mean memorizing.

No class should teach the answers to an exam. Classes should teach how and why everything works. Someone taking the exam should understand the answer, not just know what it is.

By my definition, you ARE studying, my friend. We’re just using the term differently.