Because he’s making a ton of money off of that flush machine. It takes no time at all to flush a transmission w/o dropping pan and changing filter. Even if the dealer added the pan drop and charged for that too he still wont make as much money as he would just doing the flush. Its labor intensive. Doing the pan drop with the flush will also keep him from getting to the next flush and probably the next two flushes because he’s tied up dropping one persons pan. As far as the manual goes. I personally havnt seen a 2002 manual that recommends a “Flush” of the transmission. I havnt read every owners manual out there but I would sure like to see this “Manual” which recommends a flush.
Bottom line, wherever you go whether it be a fast lube, general mechanic shop or dealer, its all about $$$.
How can you advocate just dropping the pan, removing 30% of the tranny fluid, replacing the filter and calling that good? This would be the same as draining 30% of your old engine oil out, changing the filter, and adding 30% of fresh oil back in. If I had choice, I’d rather drain all the old fluid out and replace it all with fresh fluid and leave the old filter in. At least there’s less contaminates in the new fluid to plug the old filter than there would be with only 30% drained out with a new filter.
I sometimes wonder if the statements you make are made so people don’t become educated about their automatic transmission, and what preventive maintenance can be performed to make those transmissions last longer.
But then again, you’re in the transmission repair business. And if people were educated in transmission care, that wouldn’t be good for business.
Read my answer above, we were posting at the same time. If you cant afford both then I would drop the pan, change the filter, clean the trash out of the pan and refill. Do not flush without changing the filter. You read on this site all the time someone getting their trans flushed only to have it go out on them a week or month later.
The flush & exchange are not the same thing. Some people might use the term interchangeably but a “flush” involves using the machine to run cleaning chemicals through the transmission. Some of the machines also provide pressure boosters. The exchange just pushes out the old while it pushes in the new without introducing foreign chemicals or pressures to the process.
Yes, Tester I know that you know what you are talking about. Maybe you don’t do “flushes” with the cleaning gunk and/or a pressure boost but many shops do.
I am not sure what your DIY capabilities are, but being a wimp myself, have been able to do a pan drop and filter change quite a few times. I had it done outside once and a year later while repeating it I realized they forgot to put the magnet back in. Your Kia also probably requires the SP2 Diamond ATF, if you put anything else that the shop sells you + additive, you will probably have problems down the road.
You need some wrenches, a pan and some rags. A torque wrench would be nice but I used to do it without that, and this last time my torque wrench decided to break on me so I just tightened the nuts one by one very slowly and did just fine.
I dont have a problem with an exchange as long as its done right, meaning pan dropped and filter changed first. You know as well as I do that this rarely happens because the shops make more money just flushing. This is what us trans techs see crossing our benches daily. I am trying to help people make their transmissions last longer. Dropping the pan and changing the filter takes more time and is not feasible for the shop money wise. I told Indy that since he cant afford both that he should go for having the pan dropped and the filter changed rather than doing the flush and leaving a trashy filter and trashy pan there which is just going to mix with that new fluid anyways. As far as my business goes, I run anywhere from 4 to 7 days behind at any given time and my 4 year old daughters college is already paid for. Believe me, I have no reason to mislead anyone.
Good point. Unless you flush at the dealer, you will not get the proper fluid re-installed in your trans. They buy in bulk and use an additive (Friction modifier)
The drop the pan & replace the filter is easy. Find somebody who can do this after work or on a weekend. It’s not worth the lost wages. A Kia dealership probably has extended hours (not that you need a dealership for this).
OK, I understand their logic. At the risk of going off-topic, though, I have a Honda CR-V, and Honda strongly recommends AGAINST flushing. Honda dealers will drain & refill the trans fluid. They do not use “flush” machines.
Does your transmission have a dip stick? If so, you can drop the pan for a partial fluid change, clean out the bottom of the pan and clean or change the filter. Then it is an easy matter to reinstall the pan with a new filter and add fluid. You need to know if the fluid must be checked warm at idle in gear or neutral. I have done this a long time ago so my memory has faded.
If another human being can do this, you can too with the correct instructions if your body is up to it and have a few tools.
Some filters now I understand are metal screens while others made to be replaced.
New filters come with a gasket. Your local car parts store should be able to tell you if you have a permanent or replaceable filter. If none is available then you may have a permanent filter but will still need a gasket for a pan drop.
Your situation demands that you DIY! Do you have any amateur car fixer neighbors to help? If I was your neighbor, I would be happy to help. Knowing the correct procedure is manditory; I would not start work without it but having that I would proceed with confidence.
And they shouldnt. Your CR-V transmission is a 3 piece case with no pan. It does have an internal filter but it can not be accessed without removing and disassembling the transmission. Pull your plug, drain and refill every 25-30k miles and you have serviced your transmission. Use ONLY Honda ATF when refilling.
B/c the manufacturer of a transmission really only has an interest in seeing a car last through the end of its warranty period
cigroller, with all due respect there is no logic in that statement at all. You cannot really believe that manf. dont care about longevity of thier products? Why do you think quality is so important? It cannot be a goal to self destruct after xxx miles. If so they would have NO repeat customers.
“cigroller, with all due respect there is no logic in that statement at all”
I have no idea why you see no logic in that statement. Look at the whole thing I wrote. I was using a 100K powertain warranty as a reference. Lets say a car hits 120K and needs a new transmission. Who will make some kind of a case out of that? How many Consumer Reports rankings are based on cars with 200K on them? If a car breaks down with 60K on it people think the quality sucks. If a car breaks down with 120K on it people shrug and say its old.
How about this then - explain the logic of a manufacturer who says a transmission never needs servicing. Or one that give 100K or even just 60K transmission service intervals when those are clearly NOT good for longevity. Every transmission rebuilder knows this. So I find the assumption that the goal is maximum longevity to be nuts.
I also gave absolutely no implication of some kind of self-destruct intention. Rethink your own thoughts b/c I have thought about mine an awful lot.
Transman is 100% correct and the car manufacturers make a lot of recommendations that for want of a better phrase could be considered “not mechanically viable”.
If someone wanted to carry the halfway procedure over into other automotive areas then why change an engine oil filter. Why not just flush the lubrication system out and call it good.
Who needs to change a fuel filter; flush the fuel lines/tank and call that good also.
Need an A/C compressor repair? Why change that accumulator and orifice tube; flush 'em.
there is zero, no make that negative zero that I can do this. I have issues with just putting gas in my car. When it comes to any kind of servicing on my car I believe they have trained professionals to do this, so let them do it. you don’t do you own “at home surgery” on your self, so why not let the professionals do the work on your car. Don’t know my neighbors so that is not an options. My options are having a prof do a pan drop and replace or having it flushed.
I would say that what you see on your bench everyday has a large component of poor design involved along with exterme use, perhaps a combination of poor design that causes normal use to produce extreme wear.
For some reason KIA was the only Dealer I worked at that the Dealer did push the “flush machine” we called it “an easy hour”. KIA did have the least professional tech support and I replaced more transmissions at KIA than anywhere else (if you don’t count Odyssey’s I guess, they did not get through the test drive at times, no service induced stress there).
I have done some more web searching and according to KIA themselves this model comes with a maintance free filter and does not need replacement that all that is called for is for fluid replacement. Again can’t seem to figure out why the dealership, manual and even Kia’s own website and Kia Q/A calls for no pan drop. Are their any other cars that don’t require ever a filter change? I know in the 2005 malibu i owned it didn’t even have a dip stick and had what I was told was a "sealed’ transmission that only ever needed just a fluid replacement.
Well actually right now from all the sources and such that I have gone to and such on the web it’s about 50/50. Some say the only thing to do is the pan drop and to not do it is just bad, while others say that a flush allows for a better option for the transmission. So i am still not sure, but given monies and work issues i am leaning towards the flush at this point and maybe next summer having the pan dropped them and filter replaced.