# Toyota brings its hydrogen fuel cell technology to the marketplace **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 24, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470 "2014-12-24T18:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/1 "2014-12-24T18:44:06Z")
The new Toyota Mirai–which is powered by hydrogen fuel cells–went on sale in Japan about 9 days ago, and is scheduled to become available in The US in late 2015. Obviously, this technology can’t be successful until we have enough hydrogen fueling stations to support these vehicles, but given Toyota’s success with hybrid technology, I think that they have probably figured out how to make this other technology practical for automobiles. Take a look at this article: [http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-12-17/toyota-embraces-fuel-cell-cars-for-post-gasoline-future#r=most](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-12-17/toyota-embraces-fuel-cell-cars-for-post-gasoline-future#r=most) popular ---
**Author:** ![Yosemite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/yosemite/32/643_2.png) [@Yosemite](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/2 "2014-12-24T19:32:35Z")
I’ve been thinking of adding a digester on the back of my truck. Then I could trim and shoe the people’s horses, and include in the bill …one 5 gallon bucket of horse poo. That will teach those tailgaiters!!! Yosemite ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/3 "2014-12-24T20:02:45Z")
Honda has been leasing the FCX Clarity to customers in Cali for 2 years. It has been for sale in Japan since MY2009. ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/4 "2014-12-24T20:52:53Z")
It’s just a matter of time before hydrogen finds it’s way into the main stream. The west coast first… ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/5 "2014-12-24T20:57:45Z")
Where’s the hydrogen come from? ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/6 "2014-12-24T21:02:33Z")
Possibly from here… > **[Breakthrough Extracts Hydrogen from Water 30 Times Faster](https://inhabitat.com/clean-energy-breakthrough-safer-faster-method-discovered-to-extract-hydrogen-from-water/)** > > Scottish scientists have made a clean energy breakthrough, discovering a new method for extracting hydrogen from water that is safer and 30 times faster than current methods. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/7 "2014-12-24T21:29:06Z")
Immediately, hydrogen comes from the very few pumps that offer it in the LA area. Now that Toyota is getting into it, new stations should pop up. According to [fueleconomy.gov](http://fueleconomy.gov), Hyundai started producing a hydrogen fuel cell Tuscon for MY2015, also only available in the LA area. ---
**Author:** ![insightful](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/insightful/32/2732_2.png) [@insightful](https://community.cartalk.com/u/insightful)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/8 "2014-12-24T23:29:51Z")
It appears the “breakthrough” can produce H2 at a high rate, but would use about the same amount of energy to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/9 "2014-12-25T00:44:24Z")
Right! Hydrogen is not a prime source of energy; it has to be manufactured and that requires energy. The only way to make H2 without generating carbon is by electrolysis using electricity generated by water power or nuclear generated. Using solar or wind to make hydrogen is prohibitively expensive. The good thing about hydrogen fuel cells is there is no carbon in the exhaust, just water vapor. ---
**Author:** ![meanjoe75fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meanjoe75fan/32/552_2.png) [@meanjoe75fan](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meanjoe75fan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/10 "2014-12-25T00:51:47Z")
^So basically it’s just a glorified battery? What’s the BFD then? ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/11 "2014-12-25T01:13:27Z")
I think the big fat deal (I’m _sure_ that’s what you meant!) is that if hydrogen becomes available from a pump as gasoline is now, it would take a lot less time to fill the tank than recharge a battery. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/12 "2014-12-25T01:45:48Z")
> The only way to make H2 without generating carbon is by electrolysis using electricity generated by water power or nuclear generated. > > Currently, but perhaps not for long. They have been making steady progress on this technology as I have been following it for some time now: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/tech/innovation/tomorrow-transformed-graphene-battery/index.html?c=tech](http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/tech/innovation/tomorrow-transformed-graphene-battery/index.html?c=tech) ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/13 "2014-12-25T02:38:21Z")
Gasoline very easily could be selling for $1.50-$1.75 a gallon by July, 2015…This pulls the rug out from under “alternative fuels”…California will have a hard time enforcing its zero emissions mandate…unless they limit it to publicly and utility owned vehicles which is pretty much the case now…It’s easy spending other peoples money on zero-emissions vehicles…Lets see, they can squeeze the rental fleets too… > **[Toyota Mirai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai)** > > The Toyota Mirai (from mirai (未来), Japanese for "future") is a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, one of the first such vehicles to be sold commercially. The Mirai was unveiled at the November 2014 Los Angeles Auto Show. Toyota planned to build 700 vehicles for global sales during 2015. Cumulative sales by mid-February 2017 totaled 2,840 Mirais in Japan, the United States, Europe and United Arab Emirates. The top selling markets are Japan with 1,500 units and the U.S. with 1,200. Under the United States... ---
**Author:** ![Yosemite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/yosemite/32/643_2.png) [@Yosemite](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/14 "2014-12-25T02:39:58Z")
Electrolysis; that’s what my wife wants to do with my ear hair. But then what would keep my shoulders warm. Marry Christmas Everyone Yosemite ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/15 "2014-12-25T06:25:39Z")
Toyota must be “on” to something. They pretty much own the hybrid market, and perhaps as other manufacturers eat into that segment with gas-powered hybrids they’re moving toward hydrogen. It’ll be interesting to watch the future roll out. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/16 "2014-12-25T06:50:54Z")
I worry that this is driven by regulations, like those that have automakers pay Tesla millions. ---
**Author:** ![auto-owner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/50afbb/32.png) [@auto-owner](https://community.cartalk.com/u/auto-owner)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 7:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/17 "2014-12-25T07:41:59Z")
I share the skepticism. Back in 2008, when oil hit nearly $150 per barrel, and hydrogen started really getting discussed, the reading I did left me with the impression it was just a futuristic pipe dream. Let’s see…expend some energy extracting the hydrogen, then some more energy to store (probably by chilling to some ungodly temperature) and transport it. Build an extremely expensive distribution system, figure out how to somehow build the fuel cell itself for under a hundred grand or so, get the thing to go more than maybe a hundred miles between fill-ups, and then last more than about 50K miles before replacement. And then there’s the matter of all this traffic constantly dribbling water all over the roads. I’m working from memory here, and may have left some stuff out. Apparently, though, these problems have been getting at least somewhat solved over the past 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![SteveC76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SteveC76](https://community.cartalk.com/u/SteveC76)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/18 "2014-12-25T13:11:52Z")
Cafe requirements are one of the primary reasons for the move to hydrogen. Manufacturers receive credits for alternative fuels and advanced technologies. The way cafe is calculated is complex and selling a few hydrogen cars will offset the lower mileage of trucks and allow a manufacturer to meet cafe requirments. ---
**Author:** ![MarkM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@MarkM](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MarkM)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/19 "2014-12-25T16:32:11Z")
Uh, I don’t get it. Electrolysis just requires electricity. Nuclear has been an extremely expensive power source in the US. Solar is already competitive with it, and getting cheaper all the time. Wind, I suspect, isn’t going to get much cheaper, but it may prove useful in some regions, but solar is a better long-term bet. Sunshine is free and abundant. Biofuels don’t necessarily release carbon, either. When you grow a field of something, carbon is removed from the atmosphere. When you burn the fuel made from the crop that same carbon is released. I think our current use of corn is scandalous, but suspect some sort of biofuel will prove cost effective. Probably algae or bacteria of some sort grown in ponds or even tanks. For vehicles liquid fuels do make a lot of sense, though future battery technologies may be so good no one will need anything but a plug-in electric. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470/20 "2014-12-25T20:26:12Z")
I think Steve is on to something. Toyota may have no intention of making any significant number of hydrogen cars, but like all manufacturers they play the “credits” game. This game is lucrative for manufacturers. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/toyota-brings-its-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-marketplace/88470.md?page=2)