Tom, Ray and your car's MPG

Chrysler has just announcd they will be making the Mercedes minibus for sale in the US market, where it will meet all safety and evironmental standards. Their focus will be fleets, comercial (hotels, airports, etc.) and consumers with large families, as well as outdoors types who used to by Volkwagen busses for camping and travel. Several engines will be avilable. I’ll keep you posted.

You have repeatedly offered to back up what you have written. Please do. I look forward to seeing it.

Driving my car at 55 MPH in 4th gear is going to reduce my fuel consumption over driving it 65 MPH in 5th gear. If you have evidence that proves me wrong, please show it to me. I drive a 1998 Honda Civic DX two-door coupe with a manual transmission. I look forward to seeing you prove what you have said since you have volunteered to do so. While you are at it, please also share your methodology and data. I am curious to see how you eliminated all of the other variables that affect fuel economy besides velocity. You must have since you are convinced that speed is the main variable and that your 55 MPH optimum applies to every car except a Lotus in every condition.

Driving a modern vehicle it’s optimum speed (in my case 65 MPH) is doing everything I can to reduce consumption. You haven’t backed up anything you have said with any real evidence. All you have done is say “It is true because I have said it.” and then you get upset, yell, and get sarcastic.

As to your ANWAR estimate, again, please show me your proof. I am not sure you can prove an estimate, but since you say you have proof, please deliver.

As for your wounded ego because I questioned the fuel economy results from an additive, if I was wrong, prove it. You say you can prove it with actual evidence. Please do so and I will be happy to apologize.

You have said many times that you have evidence to support all of the various claims you have made in this discussion. You have offered to provide that evidence several times. So please show it to me if it is the truth.

Since you insist in categorizing me, you really should end your posts with “NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!”

Thanks Doc! I’ll be watching for them!

Jeremy, call me Mike, it might permit a friendlier exchange. I’m sorry if I’ve been a bit over sensitive, I was just responding to your claim the way you did mine. Due to some health issues I might not be on line here for a while. If you’d like to contact me about what I found when I compared the different “snake oil” on the market or if you just want to discuss other ideas, you can e-mail me at mmusto@datadisc.com
Cheers Y’all! And a very Happy Thanksgiving!!

As for the worse economies in your lifetime, your bias is obviously effecting your memory.

BIAS…How many Economists do you want me to show you when the WORSE economics of the last 50 years has been?? I’ve yet to find ONE who doesn’t agree that it was the late 80’s into the early 90’s…with the highest unemployment numbers since the depression.

And as for short sightedness you didn’t read what I wrote. I fully expect the replacement for gasoline to be up and running within 10 years.

You’re dreaming…You hear this from the same people who sold you the Magical additives that give you the magical increased gas mileage.

I have no fingers pointing at me, I can back up everything I’ve said.

Then please do…You don’t even UNDERSTAND the basic physics or economics of ANYTHING you’ve said. How the h*ll are you going to back it up.

That’s why what happened in 1980-1988 was call “Reaganomics” - it was that presidents economic ideas adjusted by congress.

Actually Reagonomics was a DISASTER…The ONLY thing it did was drastically widen the gap between the very rich and the poor. Not to mention the ONE TRILLION DOLLAR deficit. Increasing the deficit by a factor of 10. We’re paying $1,000,000 an HOUR in interest.

Your letter is perfect!!

And a Happy Thanksgiving to you too MikeInNH !

Funny, I’m using an additive that you say doesn’t work but your the one crying over gas mileage.
Works for me!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too Mike. Be well. In the grand scheme of things this debate is pretty insignificant. It will still be here when you get back.

I tend to be a “small government” libertarian sort, but your example of what “we” did in WWII hit home. When we HAD TO a lot of things changed, even our culture. So people can change and technology can be advanced. I do think that our dependence on foreign oil is a matter of national security!
I have been listening to some “old time radio shows” (note: I also listen to “Old-Timers” radio programs, which would be “Car Talk”), and I marvel at the references to rationing and shortages. Somehow I think that the narcissistic currrent generation would never accept such a thing and would riot, and/or run to their lawyers to sue.

My old, inefficient Dodge pickup truck (hey I live in Texas) just died and I gave it to the “auto recycler” rather than spend money fixing a gas guzzler. But Dang!, the only fuel efficient vehicles I can afford aren’t big enough to haul so much as a 2x4, let alone a sheet of plywood.

As I look at used vehicles, the used car lots are full of gas guzzling vehicles. But so many new vehicles have only marginally better MPG than my old truck. What choice do I have? MPG is one of my top considerations.

Our society seems so symbiotically tied to our cars, that drivers react as if I am an alien from another planet, when they see me walking or cycling along local streets. AND our newer streets were built without provision for pedestrians or cyclists.

AND by the way I think that our cars are making us FAT. Why get excercise when you can drive? Maybe we need some hybrid cars like the Flintstone-mobile?

[b]I’m shocked, shocked I say… an american business that’s only interested in maximizing profits. What’s the world coming to?..

…Disclaimer: Not everyone who is against increased government mandates is a raving lunatic.[/b]

Craig, you really crack me up sometimes. Keep up the good work.

Part of this subject that has been completely ignored is the gasoline. We buy gasoline based on an octane rating (which only quantifies the flash point for pre-ignition) and as far as I know there is no measurement of energy content for what we buy. They could mix in something else with lower energy content and still sell it as gasoline. A car’s performance and therefore mpg is very dependent on the energy content of the gasoline. Shouldn’t there be a measure and rating of the energy content? I believe that Natural Gas is sold by the therm’s.

Good point! Diesel fuel has the highest heat content (BTUs) per pound or gallon, followed by gasoline, then alcohol (ethanol/methanol), finally natural gas. Gasoline engines with DIRECT INJECTION can use a lower octane, heavier fuel with higher heat content as well as using much higher compression ratio. This will result in much better fuel economy. The diesel’s fuel efficiency comes both from the higher heat content of the fuel and the much higher compression ratio, typically 17:1. Octane rating ,on the other hand, is resistance to knock in a spark ignition engine. High octane gas has a lower heat content per pound. This is why it is a waste of money to put premium gas in a car designed for regular. Avation gas (avgas) has an even lower heat content than premium gas. So direct injection will defintely play in the future of the gasoline engine.

I believe that if you look up the ASTM standard for gasoline sold in the U.S. you will find a specification for the energy content (either called the lower heating value or the higher heating valve, depending how it’s measured) in BTU/lb.

Actually, #2 diesel fuel has a lower heating value (BTU/lb.) than gasoline, but it does have more energy on a volume basis because it has higher density.

Since air resistance increases with the square of the speed (air resistance at 60 is 4X that at 30), it is logical that 55 mph is a more econimcal speed than 75 mph. Once I drove home from the mountains on a holiday weekend, and could not go over 50mph. For the 150 miles, I got fabulous gas mileage. However there are other costs: A highway with 75 mph speed limit can handle 50% more traffic than one with a 50 mph limit. If Germany lowered their speed on throughways to 55 mph, it would cause a collossal traffic jam, and probably more accidents. And many million would be needed to widen the highways. During the 70s fuel crisis and 55 mph limit, 4 guys around Detroit drove their cars side-by-side at exactly 55 going into Detroit on I94 in the morning rush hour. They caused a severe traffic jam. A highway is like a garden hose; if you speed up the water going through it, you get more water through!!

So there are cost trade-offs. In spite of the high fuel prices in Europe, nobody wants to go slow, since the roads could not handle the traffic at slow speeds, and personal time=money as well. So streamlining and fine-tuning the gearing to get reasonble fuel mileage at highway speed is the best way out.

I think it’s time for the United States and it’s car manufacturers to get off their hind-ends and become the world leaders we once were and can be again. It time to produce green vehicles; electric and electric hybrid vehicles, that are the best in the world. It’s good for our enviroment and even better for our economy. Make the world want what we make, make them come to us, and let’s become the world’s gold standard.

Personally, I would be in favor of the government mandating a phase-out of all non-electric and non-hybrid gas or hybrid diesel vehicles within 10 years. Offer tax incentives or credits and low financing options for consumers making the change earlier, and a government buy-back program of gas powered models to make the transition easier. An exemption could be made for collectors and enthusiasts, but gas prices would need be raised to make this a hobby situation and not an end-around loophole.

I would also support an inventors/alternatives initiative - something that would promote and encourage creativity in transportation devices/vehicles. America is the home of garage invention and is one of the things that has made us great in the past - encourage us to do it again - I’m sure we can come up with some really amazing alternatives!

JimmyD

[quote=Craig58]… you will find a specification for the energy content … measured in BTU/lb.[/quote]Well, that’s the problem. Energy content measured in British Thermal Units per pound (mass? force?). Only in the U.S. and Wirwikistan, and Wirwikistan is changing to metric in 2012. King Henry VIII would be proud ? those are his units after all. We are rapidly becoming Third World, but we don’t know it yet.

[quote=JimmyD]I think it’s time for the United States and it’s car manufacturers to get off their hind-ends and become the world leaders we once were and can be again.[/quote]It’s a global thing. Everybody knows what everyone else is doing through seminars and papers. But U.S. car manufacturers are dominated by bean counters and marketing. Do you know there is no German word for “marketing?”

[quote=JimmyD]America is the home of garage invention and is one of the things that has made us great in the past.[/quote]The operative word is “past.” The world has moved on, and invention is not going to come from an American garage again.

Agree that the metric system is now in almost universal use, and energy is now measured in Gigajoules around the world, but oil is produced in both barrel and tonnes. Car, motorcycle and bicycle wheels are still measured in inches, for some strange reason. The three countries not yet on the metric system are Yemen, Myanmar (Burma), and the USA. The American Rodeo Cowboys Association actually believes that the metric sytem is a communist plot to overthrow the United States. Never mind that the system was introduced by Napoleon who was a great admirer of the US. The Russians did not adopt it till the 1919 Revolution.