Tire Rotations

General Discussion
21

The Proof Is In The Pudding, Whatever Works For You.

At one time I religiously rotated tires as the “experts” recommended. It worked for me, but I had some cars that were not designed to be tire/alignment friendly.

Many expert recommendations are actually based rather on disclaimers that keep the car and tire manufacturers from paying out excessive warranty claims.

With better engineered cars and tires I now find that rotations are not necessary and I’ve always got evenly worn tires and plenty of tread for safety. I’ve got cars and drivers that hold alignments and wear tires evenly. I quit buying vehicles that were tough on tires/alignments and struts, a vote with the wallet.

Years ago I purchased a quality tire tread wear gauge and a German made Motometer gauge. Believe me or not, I monitor tires carefully. Now we’ve even got the goofy TPMS in some of our vehicles, but I still check and adjust regularly the old-fashioned way.

One of my newest cars was showing slight toe-wear (indicated by gauging across width of tread) shortly after I purchased it and I had a professional 4-wheel alignment done. Case closed. End of story. Now wear is even.

This does illustrate an important feature and the advantage to Not-Rotating. That is, the ability to be able to Read the tires for alignment and other mechanical issues and know when to take corrective measures.

Actually, my tires last so long that rot and cracks from age and environment are more a reason for replacement than is wear.

We have some awful winter weather here (as in other places) with one storm after another (schools have been closed 9 days in the past 4 weeks) and we don’t have traction problems or get stuck, once roads are reopened, following the latest storm. So, traction’s not an issue.

So, I say, “Do whatever you need to do to get the job done.” “Whatever floats your boat.” I do know there are some makes and models of vehicles out there that eat tires alive and this leads to rotation paranoia.

CSA

22

That reminds me of a guy that used to change his oil every 3000 miles and add a can of STP with the oil changes and the STP gave Him long engine life,supposedly,Hmm.
The point is I’m with CSA on this one if you have serious suspension problems take care of that first,the roads around here are so crappy,tire rotation doesnt affect the tire mileage that much,but on the other hand I had a boss that would get around 70K on a set of Michlens.The formulae was careful driving,good roads,regular rotations and a vehicle that would stay in line(a Chevy Silverado)he didnt speed or carry heavy loads either and good tires-Kevin (P.S some of these guys would run the tread down a little farther down then I would)

23

Too many comments here aren’t really on the topic I raised. A lot of you tend to dismiss tire rotations altogether. I don’t agree with that. (I guess that if some cars are very close to a 50/50 weight distribution front and back, you may be able to get away without rotations. But I would really want to hear an expert opinion on this before I was convinced.)

But no one has explained why tires that are evenly worn, front and back (after one rotation cycle), need to be rotated at that point. Please, if telling me why they do need a rotation, could you let us know your qualifications as an auto expert? I would find that very helpful.

24

My personal preference is to not rotate the tires and change them in sets of two as they wear out. To me this has two advantages:

  1. it amortizes the cost over time (actually the cost will end up the same long term, but I fool myself into believeing this).
  2. I believe that rotating tires can mask wear patterns that indicate problems or the need for an alignment.

There is, however, one trade off. I’ve been thinking of upsizing one bump from 215/45-17 to 225/45-17. To do this, I’ll need to start rotating so that I get in a position of needing four tires all at the same time.

25

“But I would really want to hear an expert opinion on this before I was convinced”

@CapriRacer is an expert on this forum, he’s an engineer in the tire industry.
His website: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Earlier he said: "drive tires tend to wear in the center, and steer tires tend to wear on the shoulders"
That’s a good reason to rotate even with 50-50 weight distribution.

As far as not rotating to spot irregular wear I would rather get a suspension and alignment check done periodically before the abnormal wear sets in.

26

Point well made. I too believe in periodic checks, but I monitor my wear too.

27

circuitsmith … thanks for your referral from an expert. As I said, I do believe in rotations, and your comment confirms that.

I certainly want the guys at the car shop to check my tires for signs of abnormal wear. But, I still think it’s OK to pass on the alternate rotations.

28

My comment was off topic a little bit but dont be OCD about tire rotations and we are all experts as far as our personal experience goes.You have made up your mind,go with what feels alright for you. I prefer mountainbikes method,I had friends back in the biasply days that seemed to rotate thier tires every weekend,I guess they liked doing it-Kevin

29

@russsalk, tire rotation recommendations have been “generalized”, when in reality individual cars and trucks wear tires very differently. Also some vehicles might get out of alignment. More frequent rotations catch problems quicker and keep a tire from getting destroyed when the other tires in the set are OK.

I like having 4 matching tires on a car whenever possible. Sometimes it gets tricky when a tire gets damaged, but I’d like to buy tires as a set of 4. So, rotating makes sense. If your car doesn’t seem to wear tires much differently whether they are on the front or back, then skip a tire rotation or two. The world won’t end if you don’t rotate the tires.

I run winter tires on 2 of 4 vehicles, so I rotate when I do the changeover which means 2X times a year. My son has a car at college that I don’t see until summer so I deal with the tires when he is home, or when he calls due to a problem. The 4th car is an SUV that seems to wear the tires evenly. I haven’t rotated those tires yet, but at about 10k miles on them I think I will do so when it is in for some other service. No hurry.

My credentials? 48 years driving at 35+K miles per year, comes in at about 1,750,000 miles in all kinds of vehicles, in all kinds of conditions, and I do a lot of my own repairs. I’ve bought a lot of tires over the years and most of them were well worn (evenly and down to the min. legal tread) the majority of the time. If you look at your tires frequently, feel tread area of the tire frequently, and keep them inflated you’ll see a problem in time to save the tire.

30

@same "I believe rotating tires can mask wear problems…"
I believe that’s an excellent reason to rotate tires. Even when you have a misalignment, the tires will wear more evenly when rotated. Unless the intent is to let tires wear out faster to catch misalignments by not rotating, rotating tires seems to do it’s job according to that statement.

31

Dag, the intent is to catch problems via the wear patterns before the problems become ride or handling problems, or at east at the time that the tires are replaced. Yes, the tradeoff is additional tire wear. I accept that. I choose NOT to mask wear problems.

I also believe in periodic checks. Allowing only the tire wear alone to tell me I have a problem is IMHO not sufficient.

32

@same
You have a point. But, if my tires wear less because they are rotated regardless of alignment problems, isn’t that a good thing ? As no car’s chassis is ever perfectly aligned, I would maintain that severe alignment problems will show up regardless of rotations. I know many, many people who have been convinced they need an alignment because of the irregular wear patterns caused by fwd on the front tires.

Because the tires will wear quite differently, they think they need an alignment. IMHO, alignments are oversold. I can’t remember the last time I had an alignment, maybe thirty years ago ? …of course I rotate my tires. If my car begins to pull and my rotated tires still seem to wear too quickly or I hit a pot hole and my rim is bent…etc…, I will consider one.

Can I be a wise guy ? It’s like saying I will not rotate my snow tires on this year because I want to then tell when slippery conditions occur quicker. ;=) Your faster, unequal wearing tires are, maybe less safe ?

Example…years ago my wonderful wife tried to convince me her Subaru needed an alignment after discussing the problem with a girl friend. This was because all the tires were wearing on one side. I reminder her that all the on ramps turn the same way on her way to work and while riding with her occasionally to work, i knew she drove like a banshee trying leave the person behind her in the dust while merging. I told her The squealing she heard was the tires wearing faster…She smiled, said “welll yes, maybe”. She started slowing down on corners. Our alignment “problem” disappeared on it’s own.

33

@dagosa, sounds like wifey coulda’ been a circle track racer

34

Severe alignment probelms will show up in ways other than tire wear. Minor ones may not. It’s the minor ones I watch for.

Very few cars have abnormal wear conditions as a result of design. The Nissan 370Z and some other high performance sports cars, but generally if the tires aren’t wearing properly you need to understand why and either do the alignment or repair or slow down around corners. Me, I need to slow down around corners. And I know it. My tires show it. Although not badly at all, considering how much I enjoy fast corners.

The biggest qualm I have with alignments is that it isn;t always done properly. Nothing aggrevates me more than taking a vehicle from a shop and having the steering wheel tilted. That is incorrect alignment. And I’ve seen a shop “correct” this by straightening the wheel (before the days of airbags). That’s BS workmanship. Straightening the wheel does not put the suspension geometry back into its proper static straight-ahead position.

But I do believe in an occasional alignment. In addition to aligning the wheels, it’s a good “look see” for worn components.

35

@Circuitsmith
The poor girl. I can’t blame her. When the kids finished schooling, I dragged her out into the back woods of Maine to live and gave her nothing but trucks, SUVs and tractors to drive. When she finally bought a Subaru, she actually thought it was a “high performance car” …and went car crazy for a while. She has settle down when we showed her the receipts for the cost of new tires.

Now she prides her self on her mudding in 4 low ability…when we replaced her Subie with a 4Runner.

36

@meanjoe75fan, The idea of the better tread on the back is to keep good traction.

“My advice would be, “if the wear is reasonably close, rotate the good ones to the front and let 'em even up. If the wear is substantially different, just leave the good ones on the rear until you can spring for a new pair.””

I agree with this.

37

@same
Maybe it’s the difference in the vehicles we drive. With tire size 265/65/17 and mud and snow laced tires and wheel wells, and a bumpy dirt road in the best onditions, by the time we hit the highway, a perfect wheel alignment makes little difference in the vehicles we drive. We haven’t owned but one “car” the Subaru, for quite a while.

38

Russalk, I agree with you. I don’t understand why these other guys can’t see what you’re saying.If you rotate the tires at 7,500 miles, 2 of them should be worn more than the other 2. And again at 15,000, they should be even so leave them alone for another 7,500 miles.
Honestly I leave them alone and when 2 of them wear out I replace both of them.

39

Ahem, this totally unrelated and maybe off subject a little bit(maybe it does have a little to do with longetivity-little to do with rotation,while the experts are engaged,please forgive me Russalk) why so many different lug patterns,rim sizes,etc,from year to year on similar models-Kevin

40

“Ahem, this totally unrelated and maybe off subject a little bit(maybe it does have a little to do with longetivity-little to do with rotation,while the experts are engaged,please forgive me Russalk) why so many different lug patterns,rim sizes,etc,from year to year on similar models-Kevin”

I think you’ll find that lug patterns are pretty consistent from year to year, but do vary from model to model based on the GVW. The idea is to make sure the wheels can’t be mixed between light duty and heavy duty.

Rim size? Well, some of it is marketing and some of it is consumers desires, and some of it is brake size.