The Nut Behind The Wheel

Is it true morality? No. Is it true Intelligence? No. That’s why it’s called artificial intelligence.

You can program systems to simulate what a human would do in the same situation. Is not true morality, but the decision and how it makes decision can be constructed in the binary world.

And that’s exactly what computers do extremely well. Programming those " IF’S" is the tricky part. But it’s done.

“To dream the impossible dream . . .” comes to mind. All problems will be solved when humans cease to exist and the buffalo roam free once again. Come heck or high water no humans will be allowed to drive or breathe for the sake of mankind. Onward onward . .

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There has been a “moose test” used in European car testing for a very long time. In the US, it is known as an emergency double-lane-change test. It tests the cars stability and agility when moving over an entire lane to avoid, a moose (yes) or a stopped car or a sofa in the road, and return to the lane of travel.

Famously, some SUVs and the Smart Car popped up on 2 wheels during that maneuver. Others spun out during the return. Forced stability control on those cars as standard before it was mandated.

Any autonomous control would obviously need to recognize the obstacle, brake, steer and steer back. This has been demonstrated as far back as the 1990’s with car-sized obstacles, in clear weather.

The decision gets trickier when the obstacle varies… and there is where the human may make better decisions. What does the system do when confronted with no escape path and no distance to stop? Hit a dog or hit a kid? No one wants either but if it is me or the dog, the dog’s gonna lose (and I love dogs). I would risk my own death to save a kid. Tough choice for a computer.


Lots of variables. Some that were mentioned would be very rare. But a computer is going to do as programmed. And if the dog is bigger than the child…it makes more sense…

I’ll admit, I’m rooting for the human. I like to drive. Go, John Henry! Lol

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Wow… I didn’t imagine my early morning post would generate such vibrant discussion… lots of good points being made here… honestly. Not bad for a post generated by an idiot, eh?

Of course I did over estimate the ability of the current state of Autonomous vehicles… but you all got the idea… obviously.

I’m just kicking back reading… and learning a good bit here. Bravo guys.


Sorry, couldn’t help it. Snowing out and no work today.


How many feet of snow so far?

Snow a week into October? Where do you live? Do you have the snow tires on the car yet?

:snowflake: Bing lives in Minne-snow-ta. :snowman_with_snow:

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Never been there myself. I have been warned away from there.

My mother spent her first 19 years in White Bear Lake. She tells stories of grandpa spending 2 hours shoveling the driveway so he could get the 56 Buick out, and having an electric heater he put down the dipstick to keep the oil warm. As soon as she was old enough she moved to sunny CA and the rest of the family soon followed her.

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Bing’s one of the last ones out!

Even their Winter Festival Snow Queen comes to Bradenton, Florida every winter. I ride my bicycle up to the Desoto Heritage Grand Parade (miles long drinking party with a pirate theme) and watch her go by with her white fur (everybody else is in shorts and t-shirts!), riding in one of 7 new Mustang convertibles representing Minnesota.

Sheesh you guys. Just a trace but can’t work outside. Farther north and west though they are getting hit. I really need October yet to be halfway decent. I don’t use snow tires but I do have chains for my lawn mower if I need them.

I don’t know which Snow Queen but my wife was many moons ago in South Dakota. I rubbed it in a little because the current South Dakota Governor was also Snow Queen once.

Eliminating the human driver will forever be a pipe dream for one simple reason: money. No matter how efficient computers and artificial intelligence become, that will not matter.

Right now, people are willing to tolerate laws that require every driver to carry insurance, because in theory they could make a mistake which could cause an accident, and insurance would be needed to pay for the liability. If cars become fully autonomous, then people riding in the car are merely passengers. People will balk at paying for insurance to cover the risk that the car might make a mistake, because they should not be liable for that. It could be argued that a person riding in an autonomous vehicle should have no more liability for an accident than a person riding in a city bus or a taxi would.

In order for the powerful insurance industry to keep the gravy train of ever-increasing premiums flowing, it will be necessary to keep the human driver.

St Paul Winter Carnival
Bing, get your wife to run for queen there, get her crown and white fur, and they’ll send you down!

Absolute statements about the future are almost always wrong.

I think it’s fairly likely that the insurance burden will shift to the manufacturer, which will not sell cars but rent them as services. Insurance premiums will be rolled into the cab fare.


I agree with @shadowfax. Rent, lease, or an Uber-like car service directly from the car manufacturer will likely replace ownership of driverless cars. There may always be a reason to own some cars for recreational purposes, but vehicles for commuting and errands will likely be owned by someone else who pays directly for taxes, title, fuel, and insurance. We will pay when we get service.

Agreed, the problem comes in that period when only some vehicles are this capable…given the life of vehicles–some say an average of 12 years–(and those of us who are “good” to our vehicles: with careful driving, preventative regular maintenance) well-then WE become the problem as we try to get 18, 20, 25 years out of our vehicles. You might say that is the best type of “green,” the new vehicle that did not need to be manufactured, the old one not needing recycling… So we are maybe looking at a 20-year period where vehicle-to vehicle communication does not work 100%. Still 80% will save lives–small children and dogs.

So we need to keep working on this. Just like we need to keep working on more and better electric charging stations, to encourage purchase of electric cars. I want an electric, but literally cannot leave my state given the current (ha!) situation of public chargers and vehicle range. But I am hopeful…soon!

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“we will all die someday”

Can’t see any human being arguing that I’m wrong about that :thinking:

I completely agree with that

I also like some of the evs out there . . . and I currently have a pretty short commute. So I might be a “good candidate” for such a vehicle. I even have a 240V . . . or is it 220V? . . . outlet in my garage, so it might not be difficult to install that “fast charger” were I to opt for an ev when purchasing my next vehicle

Sorry to burst anybody’s bubble, but were I to opt for an ev, I would probably not be considering a Tesla.

Here’s one:


Personally, I think he’s… Optimistic is probably the nicest way of putting it.