I’m disappointed in you! Not one disparaging word about those super-vampires of the banks, and Wall Street (and, off-Wall Street)? The ones who have taken hundreds of billions of dollars from OUR U.S. Treasury, and haven’t made any mortgage easements for anyone? The ones, and their boards, who award themselves hundreds of millions of dollars (EACH!) regardless of how devastated their employees and companies are?
It wouldn’t be a bad thing to make this kind of greed a capital offense. How would THAT be for equality? Frontier justice would be to hang’em, and then, give’em a fair trail.
“#1 Prove to me that they’re working when while they are on that corporate jet.”
They have the job because they are workaholics. Do you think they stopped having fun just because they became CEOs?
"#3. It’s NOT just they flying…but also maintaining these jets. The cost of ownership and maintenance is in the MILLIONS. If a jet IS needed…then how about renting one or leasing one.’
How do you know they don’t rent them?
And I don’t buy your diatribe, either.
BTW, great post, andrew.
I agree that the “appearance” of the execs arriving in company jets when asking for money is bad. But let’s not get confused here. The demise of GM for example will have a devastatingly bad affect on our already seriously weakened economy. Many millions of jobs are at stake here. I have in my career flown on company jets and I can tell you that an argument can be made for having them. And yes, we did work and did more work because of them. But there are clearly excesses in American businesses which are deploreable.
I agree that the “appearance” of the execs arriving in company jets when asking for money is bad. But let’s not get confused here. The demise of GM for example will have a devastatingly bad affect on our already seriously weakened economy. Many millions of jobs are at stake here. I have in my career flown on company jets and I can tell you that an argument can be made for having them. And yes, we did work and did more work because of them. But there are clearly excesses in American businesses which are deploreable.
Umm, they did cut their expenses and pay before they went to DC. I agree with the elected representative who said that they should have flown together, but the expenses would have been paid for the planes no matter what. But it would have been good theater.
How do you think the Banking Titans got to DC to beg for money?
Lastly, and most importantly, doesn’t anyone care about the 2 million people who will lose their jobs if Ford, GM, and Chrysler shut down? If not, do you care about what it may do to the US economy? Do you think that you will have a job if these auto folks lose theirs? Your job my not directly depend on Detroit, but there is no telling where the havoc will lead. The Dow Industrials have fallen from 14,000 to less than 8000, mostly as a result of the banking crisis. I don’t think we can afford another drop off the cliff. You and I have probably lost 33% or more in our retirement funds in just 2008. How much more can you stand to lose?
I suggest that everyone get over their anger at the way corporate leaders in the USA have mismanaged their organizations and consider what may happen a few months from now. We’re all gonna pay big-time no matter what. It just seems to me we should get something in return, like continued manufacturing of cars and federal loan repayments when the credit markets are open for business again.
I am still up in the air if the 3 need a bailout but, it would be a hugh double standard if AIG and all others got a handout but not the 3. I think it has a lot do do with the decision makers have money invested in AIG, etc., but not in auto makers. They are interested in thier own wallets.
POLITICS = poly is many and tics are blood suckers.
The problem is that giving these guys 25 billion dollars when they don’t have a plan, a clue, or anything else is going to accomplish absolutely nothing.
They’ll blow through 25 billion and a year from now will be in the same condition.
It just postpones the inevitable. If any of those guys had a clue in the first place they wouldn’t be sitting there in front of Congress groveling.
They saw the Wall Street boys cash in and figured why not us.
Next month there’s no telling who will be lobbying Congress for a handout.
It’s impossible for me to drum up sympathy for a company or a groveling CEO who makes 36 million a year + perks; not the least of which is the corporate jet to use as he sees fit.
To those who are skeptical of corporate jets, you should know that they are not used exclusively by CEOs and upper management. If the car companies are like the corporation that I worked for, the company airplane was used to ferry engineering, marketing and other people who had business at outlying plants plus trips by people from the outlying plants to the corporate headquarters. These are typically working airplanes in frequent use in the case of a larger corporation.
Although we have excellent telephone service and email now, sometimes it is good for people to meet face to face to enhance communication and working relationships and in the interest of efficiency, there are corporate jets that save employee work time, rental car costs, and motel/hotel costs. I must say that I did appreciate the direct flights often with a return trip home the same day that I left. Nice perk you might say but take the bus. Believe that if a company treats its people well, they will give it back.
Bankruptcy may be a viable option if it will help the US car brands get out from underneath the excessive union wage and retirement benefit legacy costs including 30 and out that the foreign brands are not burdened with. These benefits were, of course, provided under threat of strike or actual strikes when times were better.
I agree 100% OK.
When I watched the news tonight and seen that GM CEO refuse to even comment when asked if he was willing to take a cut in his bonus of astronomical proportions, I saw red. Great example of total greed.
That clown has more balls than brains.
GM has supposedly ‘lost’ billions each quarter. Not hard to figure why.
God help those unemployed in the future.
My surprise is that anyone in congress has been surprised by the behavior of these CEO’s. I still have not resolved my feelings about their bailout; more because I am unsure of the economic impact. However we’ve all seen inferior products from all three companies and lowered revenues year after year. Despite the knowledge of oil shortages, energy issues, etc, they continued to build cars which were inefficient. They have never adjusted their outflow despite ongoing losses; for example, GM has paid handsome medical insurance benefits to retirees even though they could no longer afford to do so. Recently the NYT wrote about the GM insurance. One retiree paid fifty two dollars for a quadruple bypass. Who can afford these type of benefits? I’m no more in favor of helping these foolish CEO’s than I was of helping the financial institutions who gambled so recklessly; yet I did finally support their bailout after listening to Paul Krugman and Warren Buffett. Krugman reluctantly supports the auto bailout in a limited fashion. I believe that if we do this, we must be given assurances of R and D for energy effecient cars. Not sure if they will make or keep any promise, though.
I’m totally disappointed in Wall-Street too. I don’t think we should be bailing them out either…but since this is a forum on CARS and NOT banks I thought to hold my comment on them.
If they go under they go under. Something will come out of it all. A smaller, more efficient company, division of another after a takeover, etc.
I would not automatically assume that if Company A closes that means a total loss of jobs. After a resurrection more could be created than what existed in the first place.
The Big Three have done pretty well at eliminating thousands of U.S. jobs for years.
Speaking of job stats, some of you may be familiar with the recent closing of the Oklahoma City GM plant a couple of years ago.
When ths plant opened to much fanfare 25 years ago it was stated that it would “create jobs for the state and the U.S. and be a boon to all” by creating 1500 jobs to start.
About the time this plant was scheduled to open I had to attend a school in TX and on the way back and had a layover at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport.
While in the airport bar reading a newspaper I ran across an article stating that GM was closing the Ft. Worth plant and putting 1500 people out of work. It also stated that the TX employees were being given first shot at the OK jobs.
Create “more jobs”? Hardly. They’re simply transferring them to another state after extorting innumerable tax breaks from the state and the city.
Got to love the tax codes.
This plant closing seemed to catch everyone offguard but why should it. A full year before the closing announcement an article in the newspaper business section stated that the OKC GM plant required 26 employee hours to build an SUV as compared to approx. 19-20 for Chrysler and Ford.
When I read that I told my wife then that the OKC plant was toast. No way is GM going to be profitable with that much of a labor discrepancy.
Sounds like their production line methods were garbage or they had a bunch of slackards working there.
The demise of GM for example will have a devastatingly bad affect on our already seriously weakened economy. Many millions of jobs are at stake here.
You’re confusing filing for Chapter 11 and closing the doors…BIG DIFFERENCE. The WORSE case scenario is GM or Chryco will be bought out by one of it’s competitors. Ford looks like it’ll be able to ride it out. We’ll see.
GM/Ford and Chryco COMBINED only have about 200k employees…NOT 2 million.
To those who are skeptical of corporate jets, you should know that they are not used exclusively by CEOs and upper management.
UM…WRONG…The GM corporate jet is owned by GM…but used EXCLUSIVELY by the CEO. He lives in Seattle WA and uses it to commute back to Seattle on the weekends. It’s one of his perks.
I agree 100% with OK…
I’m NOT saying we SHOULDN’T give them the 25b…What I’m saying is that BEFORE we do THEY need to trim their own budget…come up with a working bail-out plan. Show us that they are willing to work for this money…NOT …just give them a blank check and then watch their executive salaries rise 40% as they lay off more workers and then close their doors for good 2 years later. GM’s CEO made $26m last year…THAT’S ABSURD. How about taking a drastic pay cut…to say $1m??? Then get rid of all those perks…Eliminate the $millions in bonuses to the executives…eliminate the executive junkets…
Don’t you think that bailing them out will reinforce their bad decisions? I think you are talking about enabling their mismanagement. Although I care about people losing their jobs and the economy, I think the Drtroit big three need a complete turn-around in their corporate culture and bailing them out can prevent that shake-up from ever happening.
Everyone is missing that the Execs interest is for the stockholders and themsleves. Bankruptcy means stockholder share value is 0 and they would the be subject to a court mandated restructuring which probably means they are out of a job. The execs have a fiduciary obligation to protect the stockholders and a vested interest in saving their overpaid s. The other side of bankruptcy besides leaving the shareholders with no value stock is that all the suppliers the companies owe money to get shafted.
I’m Not Emotional Right Now And I Am Explaining What I said.
It Doesn’t Matter To Many Of These CEO’s, CFO’s, COO’s, and politicians whether it’s profit, loss, or someone else’s money, they spend it! What I meant was that whether a corporation spends profits, or arguably losses, or not, at least the money flow is through business channels, not through confiscation. The confiscating money wasters are judging the profit/loss money wasters. I misread or misunderstood your comment: “That is a big difference.” I thought the comparison was with the government. Sorry for the confusion.
I guess that I’m in this camp too. I have no desire to see the demise of the American auto industry. But as David Brooks recently reminded us, the cornerstone of a capitalist economic system is the right to succeed on one hand, and the risk of failing on the other. “Creative destruction” is the term he used for the relentless process that keeps commerce always moving toward to the most effective, efficient form of production. Intervening now would insulate the Big 3 from the risk of failing and interfere with the creative destruction that has so far worked pretty well to remove inefficient businesses and reward efficient ones. Before we voluntarily take that step, we ought to seriously rethink our commitment to capitalist principles.
I Agree With You About Not Being OK For CEO’s To Waste Money And Ask For More!
What I find offensive is the comments from government money wasters belittling the corporate money wasters.