And the haters continue to hate. Always will, no matter what.
Sorry, I’m not in the mood to get drawn into an argument right now. I’m going to enjoy my evening. You just keep on hating.
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When I was younger, I remember that it was rather easy to break loose the rear wheel on the urban hot rolled premix asphalt in the city but the pavement on the highway it was not so easy. Funny thing was that when it rained, it was just the opposite, it was the hot rolled asphalt that had the traction then.
I also remember reading a comparison road test of a few 600 cc sport bikes compared to the 1000 cc supersport versions. One thing that stuck out was that the small and large bikes had virtually identical zero to 60 times, around 2.9 seconds. Horsepower was not the limiting factor, but traction and keeping the front wheel on the ground was.
You reach a saturation point where more horsepower is just more wheelspin.
Of course, once they got past 60 mph, the big bikes would pull away from the small bikes.
Yes, there always haters
And there are those who are early adopters, guzzle kool-aid and jump on the band wagon
But there’s also a middle ground, in my opinion.
I certainly admire the Tesla technology, and the way Musk is managing to effect/change the industry
But the comments about government subsidies are relevant, in my opinion
Sure, some new technologies have required that
But does mentioning that fact automatically make you a “hater” . . . ?
I submit it means you’ve been a careful observer and, more importantly . . . it shows you are nobody’s fool
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If memory serves me, the average return over the long haul is about 7.5%. So without compounding just figure like something around $5000 a year or $150,000 over 30 years. Of course with compounding probably more like a quarter mil. I never was much good at net present value and had people that were, but yeah any time you’ve got a payback over five years, who knows what’s going to happen-like a huge natural gas surplus?
Trouble is, that was posted as a response to my comment and was in no way related to my comment. My comment wasn’t about Tesla’s subsidies. It was a recognition of how much Tesla has changed our perceptions. And they have.
Insightful knew exactly what I meant. But rather than agree or disagree, he had to post something negative about Tesla. I found it highly inappropriate.
I have no stock in Tesla. But posting a negative comment just to say something negative about them… that’s a hater.
I mostly agree with you except for this
That’s where you and I don’t quite agree
I didn’t find it inappropriate
But, as I mentioned earlier, I agree with your comments about Tesla. It is amazing and a game-changer, and I acknowledge Musk’s genius, even though I don’t always like his personality . . . the part that comes across in the media, anyways. For example, Henry Ford was a genius, and it’s probably common knowledge that he was hard to get along with, and had some viewpoints that would be considered unacceptable in today’s world, and that’s phrasing it nicely 
Its mid nov in mn now. How is the heat in a tesla? I know cars have 12V systems so plug in 12V heaters put out very little heat in cars. The tesla uses battery packs wired in parallel and series to produce higher voltages to the drive motors. But, how do they generate heat? For the seats, blower motor, headlights, rear defrost, and cabin heat? If owner decides to crank ALL the heated events in car, does it really affect battery life?
Odd thing, car is in 40f garage, you drive to work when it’s -5f and for the first minute, car feels ok, than car gets colder, and after 3-4 minutes it finally gets warmer from engine heater/coolant. I hate winter so much
I don’t really know the specifics of a Tesla, but I assume a battery that can power a car can also provide heat, and it would be instant. Yes, it would definitely affect range. For maximum bang for the buck, the AC unit could act as a heat pump in cold weather instead of relying on pure resistance heating.
Also, the batteries of a Tesla need to be cooled, and that waste heat could be vented into the car during winter weather.
I recently bought a 56 volt lithium battery powered lawn mower and I like it so much that I’m never going to go back to gas lawn mowers. It’s just so nice to have a mower that you just turn on, is quiet, and doesn’t leave my hands tingling from vibration after I’m through.
The only thing better would be grass poison so I don’t have to mow.
i just think a hybrid is better. you have a gas motor as backup. you can charge the batteries with it. i did drive by a tesla last night at the mall. i noticed the led headlight “rings” at first. does every new car have headlight rope beads now? ugh
These meet the requirements for daytime running lights. Some countries require DRLs, including Canada, motivating the car manufacturers to include them across their product lines.
lets not turn this into a DRL thread. yes the tesla probably has all LED lights so the power use is low.
Hey, you’re the one that asked the question.
I agree that low power use is a factor for using LEDs, but I’d put more weight on styling being the reason. Only the guys in the design departments know for sure.
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Stylish or not, I’m guessing the lenses will get hazy after several years, same as any other headlamp with plastic lenses
I guess I agree with @Cavell in Minnesota anyway, it seems far more practical to have a gas/diesel/propane/whatever generator to charge the batteries continuously, thereby providing unlimited range. Just like locomotives.
Now back to oil filters and the old is new again. Oh I mean, electric heaters. Like I said before I remember back in 1965 or so a classmate’s folks bought a new Ford and it had electric heat in it. I was told it provided instant heat on a cold Minnesota winter morning. Didn’t seem to last very long for some reason though and think it was only offered for a year or so and then another bright idea down the drain.
The problem with electric heaters is that they draw a ridiculous amount of power, 60 amps @ 12 volts = 720 watts of power = 41 BTU/minute. How big is your alternator?
It makes no sense whatsoever when your engine produces waste much more waste heat than that.
My online research indicates that Teslas are heated with a simple resistance heater that operates directly off of the 400 volt main battery that can supply 4000 watts of heat. 4000 watts = 5.36 hp, which would be a considerable percentage of the average power draw so if you really need to milk all the range you can out of the battery, do like motorcyclists do and wear heated underwear and a warm hat and just leave the heat off.
I’m rather disappointed that Tesla doesn’t use the AC backwards as a heat pump which I believe the Nissan Leaf does.
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Heats to a maximum of 82 degrees cabin temperature. There’s a heat exchanger, and a supplemental resistance heater for when you want more heat than the exchanger can put out. The sub-zero package also includes seat heaters for every seating position, and a heated steering wheel. It also heats the washer nozzles and wiper blades.
You lose about 22 miles of range per hour if you have all 5 seat heaters, the steering wheel, the washer nozzles, wiper blades, defroster, and have the HVAC temperature set to maximum. A little under 1 mile of that range loss comes from maintaining the battery temperature, which the car does even when it’s not being driven.
The one thing Tesla did was to show the world that a viable all electric car was possible. No one was working on an viable electric vehicle before Tesla. GM did with it’s EV-1, but dropped it and then crushed all the vehicles. Now that Tesla showed the world what could be done - every manufacturer that I know of is working on an Electric vehicle using a lot of the same technology that Tesla uses.
Their first car was a marketing stroke of genius. They would never have made the splash they did by designing an all-electric minivan with a range of 100 miles. They proved the technology works and then improved on it over the years, and all the other manufacturers are playing catch-up. Their new Model S is designed for the low end luxury vehicles. It competes directly with Lexus, Volvo, Infinity, Mercedes. Several million people a year buy into that market.
I agree. They also proved that an electric car could be stylish and every bit as comfortable and drivable as an ICE vehicle.
Beyond that, they did the research to make large lithium-ion arrays usable as a power source. It was Tesla that designed the integrated cooling system that allowed the cells to function as a large array, and to protect the overall array if one cell fried. Without Tesla, EVs would still be in the “wish we could” category.
Is Tesla perfect in all respects? Nope. Is anyone? Nope. But they’ve sure changed the automotive landscape.
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I’ve never been surprised that the $100,000 Tesla S is a good car. And I’m not surprised that the $250,000 new Tesla is super fast with an exceptional range. It has 2X the Tesla S 100’s battery pack. 1800 lbs of batteries. So it’ll have 2X the range, and a huge potential power output. What I’m still waiting to see is the Tesla 3 produce in any significant numbers at a reasonable price. Right now it’s producing very few, at BMW 3 series prices.
Of the two, I’d take the Tesla. 
There’s no question that Tesla needs to go mainstream. But when that day comes, they’ll be a formidable force.
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