# Stop Sale Order issued by Honda for 2016 Civic **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Created:** [February 23, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596 "2016-02-23T03:27:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/1 "2016-02-23T03:27:58Z")
I heard this story on the radio earlier today, but I thought that I must have mis-heard the reason for the Stop Sale Order. However, this article confirms that I heard the info correctly, and that over 30,000 2016 Civics may have been made with piston rings that are either missing or “misplaced”. I can only guess as to what misplaced might mean, and I am guessing that…perhaps…compression rings and/or oil control rings were put in the wrong positions on these engines’ pistons. What else could “misplaced” possibly mean? I can understand when a supplier provides substandard parts that later result in a recall. I can understand when a manufacturer’s design later turns out to be a not-so-good one. But…installing engines that are missing some of their rings, or whose rings have been “misplaced”? That I cannot understand, unless Honda has dispensed with inspections of their engines during assembly and prior to installation in their vehicles. This has to be a major lapse in quality control at the assembly plant where the Civic engines are assembled, and it definitely makes me wonder whether Honda has lowered their previously high standards in the name of cost reduction. > **[2016 Honda Civic: Stop-Sale Issued, Recall Looms, Engine Issue To Blame](https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1102477_2016-honda-civic-stop-sale-issued-recall-looms-engine-issue-to-blame)** > > The all-new Honda Civic raced into showrooms last October, but it's already begun to hit speed bumps. According to Bloomberg, Honda is preparing to recall 2016 Civics registered in the U.S. due to engine problems. The Honda Civic is a hugely popular... ---
**Author:** ![BillRussell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/billrussell/32/3179_2.png) [@BillRussell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/BillRussell)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/2 "2016-02-23T04:12:27Z")
Surely each car has the engine started at least once before it leaves the factory? and that one time should be enough to detect missing rings ! There would be lots of red lights… ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/3 "2016-02-23T04:30:44Z")
**^** One would think so! This situation is a bit of a mystery, as far as I am concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Tester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/tester/32/15976_2.png) [@Tester](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Tester)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/4 "2016-02-23T04:31:39Z")
Well? At least Honda is being retro-active and preventing defective vehicles from being introduced into the market to unsuspecting customers. Where with other vehicle manufacturer’s, they’ll keep selling defective products to the consumer even if it’s a safety issue and they know it, until enough people are injured or killed. Then when they’re caught, they send out millions of recall notices. Tester ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/5 "2016-02-23T04:33:10Z")
This has a “ring” of sabotage about it… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/tester/32/15976_2.png) [@Tester](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Tester)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/6 "2016-02-23T04:43:59Z")
The problem is with the wrist pin snap rings. > **[Honda Orders Stop Sale on 2016 Civic, 2-liter Engine to Blame](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/02/honda-orders-stop-sale-2016-civic-2-liter-engine-blame/)** > > Missing or incorrectly installed piston pin snap rings "may cause engine stall or failure," said Honda in an internal email. Tester ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/7 "2016-02-23T05:01:48Z")
Whether the issue is piston pin snap rings, or missing or “misplaced” rings, it all causes me to wonder about the quality controls and inspections that were done at that assembly plant. I have always considered Honda engines to be almost like Swiss watches in terms of the quality of their design and their assembly. Was I wrong? Or, has Honda recently relaxed their traditional quality control measures? ---
**Author:** ![Tester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/tester/32/15976_2.png) [@Tester](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Tester)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/8 "2016-02-23T05:05:20Z")
Ever seen an engine assembly plant? It’s mostly done by robots! Tester ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/9 "2016-02-23T05:18:06Z")
_ **“I have always considered Honda engines to be almost like Swiss watches in terms of the quality of their design and their assembly.”** _ _ **"Was I wrong?"** _ **Yes.** People don’t even look for Swiss watches any more. _ **"Or, has Honda recently relaxed their traditional quality control measures?"** _ **That, too.** This is a case in point! **Myth. From what I read about on this site and in TSBs they’re nothing special. They put their tires on one rim at a time.** _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/10 "2016-02-23T06:15:16Z")
A disgruntled employee, or a number of them, could have easily been responsible for this. ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/11 "2016-02-23T18:13:43Z")
> People don't even look for Swiss watches any more. Yes they do, and some even collect them. :smiley: ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/12 "2016-02-23T20:18:58Z")
_ **“People don’t even look for Swiss watches any more.”** _ _ **"Yes they do, and some even collect them.** _ 😃 " @PvtPublic **Oops, Sorry!** **Correction** : _**[Probably upwards of 99.9% of] people don’t even look for Swiss watches any more. :neutral: CSA**_ ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/13 "2016-02-23T20:36:29Z")
@CSA, Nothing intended. I just happen to be one of the people that collect vintage watches. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/14 "2016-02-23T20:40:41Z")
Honda used to be so confident in their engine assembly plants, they didn’t fire the engines for the first time until the end of the assembly line. At least in the 80’s, in their Ohio plants, with Japan-sourced engines. They weren’t the only Japanese manufacturer to do this. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/15 "2016-02-23T21:03:23Z")
_**@PvtPublic "Nothing intended. I just happen to be one of the people that collect vintage watches."**_ I know, just going along with the fun. _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/16 "2016-02-23T21:15:41Z")
I too collect watches… or at least I used to before I retired. I have perhaps 16 automatic watches (we used to call them “self-winding” many years ago) many skeletonized, many with Swiss movements. ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/17 "2016-02-23T21:25:54Z")
Honda quality is mainly the result of designing the part right and then manufacturing it right, either in house or by qualified subcontractors. The actual assembly quality is top notch as well, of course, but, as mentioned, this screw up could be the result of “sabotage” by disgruntled employees or an outside source looking to discredit Honda. As mentioned, traditional US manufacturers and many European firms would sweep this under the rug and just address customer complaints through the warranty program, all the while having expensive lawyers say that there “is not a problem”. The traditional Swiss watch is hard to find; their plastic electronic Swatches are about $50 and work very well. I only know one person who has an actual Swiss Rolex watch, a $2500 gift from his wife 10 years ago. In the Middle East a gold Rolex and a Mercedes are still the status symbols. Young people don’t buy as many watches since their smart phones or I Pads continually show the time. In our kitchen alone we have a stove, 2 microwaves and a telephone that show the time. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/18 "2016-02-23T21:56:57Z")
_ **“The actual assembly quality is top notch as well, of course, but, as mentioned, this screw up could be the result of “sabotage” by disgruntled employees or an outside source looking to discredit Honda.”** _ The Myth is alive and well. That’s it! If Asian car companies screw up it’s sabotage by a disgruntled employee. Don’t ever forget that the assembly quality is top-notch. GM or Ford screws up and it’s just them making more of the same junk. This myth that began a generation ago will be handed down to the next generation. I’m still trying to grapple with all the excessive oil consumption engines and all the other transmission problems in TSBs the Asian cars have. I’ve concluded that most disgruntled employees choose Asian car manufacturers. 😉 _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/19 "2016-02-24T01:13:55Z")
I’m not one of those who subscribe to the myth that all Asian cars are infallible. More than a few times I’ve flat out stated they have just as many issues as anyone else and are just as prone to the backroom, double-dealing, CYA methods of manufacturing as anyone else. My suggestion about disgruntled employees is not meant to infer everything is fine until said miscreants come along and throw a monkey wrench into the works. IF, and I say IF, this is the work of disgruntled employees then one has to wonder why they’re disgruntled. Why should a disgruntled Honda be given a pass and a disgruntled GM be branded as “more of the same old junk”? It should not. Disgruntled or not, it’s still bone-headed manufacturing and just as shoddy a process as anything the Big Three are accused of. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596/20 "2016-02-24T05:26:12Z")
Doc, now you know two. And I know another… my son. It’s important to note that Rolex watches used to be renowned for their accuracy, but in truth cheap quartz watches are more accurate simply by virtue of the technology. A Rolex in today’s world is a beautiful piece of jewelry more than a timepiece. Just like a Camry is a far better use of your dollar than a Bugatti Veyron, a Casio is a far better use of your dollar than a Rolex. Doc, I have to comment on your statement that makes designing and building a high quality car like a Honda sound simple. I know that you know that I know that you know that doing so requires far more sophisticated knowledge than is apparent. The many techniques and approaches that Japan has taught us (many taught to them by an American, many not) that have enabled the kind of precision and accuracy (which, as you know, are different things) are only common sense once you’ve done the hard work to understand them. And implementing them is a learning experience all by itself. Modern technology also has to be added to what’s necessary to get where Honda has gotten. Did I obfuscate that sufficiently? 😃 Sorry. I’m tired. I get giddy when I’m tired. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/stop-sale-order-issued-by-honda-for-2016-civic/92596.md?page=2)