Jt, I’m not sure this is not a regionally variable perspective. If LA traffic were all automated and the vehicles drove based on predetermined standard “safe” vehicle distances for designated speeds, the cars would be stretched out much farther and the road densities and capacities would likely be lower. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting that the distances common in and around LA are safe. I just returned from there, and I couldn’t drive there. They’re totally nuts. But it doesn’t bother them. “Close calls” that would cause road rage in my state are just assumed to be normal driving there. It’s a whole different culture.
That’s why I was saying there may well be a system of roadways dedicated to automated cargo vehicles. The Railroad system is an example, but with self driving there would not be a need for tracks. A two lane trans America Interstate highway that only was used by self driving trucks that were met by humans at exit storage areas could move an enormous amount of cargo, and in that sort of environment why not use what amounts to trains on tires? We already move almost everything in containers that are moved from ships to trains to trucks, but only the trucks are driven by humans the entire way.
That would seem to be a pretty expensive proposition, wouldn’t it?
I think that proposal would work with today’s automation as it removes the random stuff that is hard to correct for with autonomous vehicles. You could “hand off” the truck at the end to a human driver for delivery. It isn’t unlike the flatbed train cars that carry semi-trailers from rail head to rail head.
I actually think semi autonomous systems for semi-trucks (unintended double pun) are very close. Semis react slowly and the cabs are high for sensors to look ahead so the computer has plenty of time to make good decisions. The driver would ride along while the systems brings them close to their destination, wakes the driver up to take over the final portion. That could reduce costs if the autonomous drive time is allowed to be the truckers’ rest time.
Well I guess that’s what makes us great. A vast diversity of opinions on what the future should look like. One person’s heaven is another person’s 4ell. Some people like to sit around drinking tea and eating biscuts while they discuss literature, and others like to go fishing and hunting and have a beer. As long as you keep your computer controlled bumper cars in your own neighborhood, we’ll be fine though.
It seems to me that increased road capacity would not be regional. If each driverless car knows the location and intentions of the 8 closest vehicles ( I’m the ninth in the center of the box), then they can move quickly and without the backups caused by the more assertive drivers weaving and the much less assertive ones that just can’t seem to figure out how to change lanes until traffic virtually stops to let them in. Changing lanes would be done without the ego issues associated with driving. When my car needs to move right, the others make room by temporarily adjusting speed to accommodate the maneuver.
I agree completely. I went to a “diverless car demo” in San Diego in the mid 90’s ('96 I think). 5 cars “platooned” at 55 mph down closed and segregated HOV lanes. They were reportedly only 15 feet apart, per the press release. The reality was more like 45 feet or roughly half the 5.5 car lengths all the safety boffins claim is correct.
On the way back to the hotel, we were 25 feet off the car in front and back at 75 mph, like EVERYbody else! There is academic theory and then there is reality!
Cars that automatically keep safe distances would simply require more space per car in densely populated areas. That would reduce capacity. You simply cannot get as many baseballs in the bathtub as you can golf balls.
Seems to me we are just missing the whole math thing. Some of you claim that huge back-ups are caused by crazy and bad drivers. I suggest its more just exceeding the road capacity. This afternoon there was a 5 mile northbound back up on the interstate due to bridge work and going from 70 two lanes travel to 55 one lane travel. I was going southbound so could see the whole episode and took the old road coming back. I didn’t see any loony drivers, just everyone having to slow down and merge into one lane. Its Friday afternoon and the road is heavily traveled. You just can’t fit as many cars in one lane going 55 or less than you can two lanes going 70. Did I miss something in class?
I see cars creeping slowly along on a 4 lane each way freeway every day. They are going about 20 mph. Most are carrying one person. So we have about 25 or 30 feet of roadway being used by one person in each lane. That’s a heck of a lot of road for one person. Something has to change.
Unlike the folks riding the bus or train, that guy taking up 25 feet of roadway paid for that piece of concrete through gas taxes and user fees.
The whole urban studies issue though and core metropolitan development with the feds pushing trains and HOV lanes has something to do with our inability to cope with the vehicles on the road. But that’s a whole nother discussion.
My point is that a safe distance could decrease in size and actually be adhered to by all cars since they are driverless. Part of the safe distance today is reaction time of the following driver. The reaction time of the computer in the car would be shorter. The intention of all the close vehicles would also be broadcast in the nearby group to aid in anticipating moves, also allowing for a closer following distance.
You hit the nail on the head. I think we desperately need automated vehicles. i do not like the idea at all but Its painful obvious that many people want to be doing everything but paying attention to the road when driving. Driving is a joke to many people.
People hurry too much as well, a machine will not hurry unless its programmed to.
Driverless cars can have a much closer safe driving distance. Reaction time would be greatly reduced. There already has been studies on road capacity when people drive correctly. Without the aggressive drivers and everyone following the rules of the road the amount of cars on the road actually increases with less traffic problems. I can only assume with driverless cars captivity will increase.
Point well made about the reaction time. However, the ability to “read” the other drivers’ behaviors, watch the traffic ahead, and anticipate might more than make up for a computer’s faster reaction times in congested areas. Anticipating is something critical to efficiency, and a human can anticipate far, fare better.
As I said, perhaps in the future, but at this point in time safe distances would still require more space per driver in congested areas. Human drivers around LA are NOT maintaining what current standards consider safe distances… not even close. The only reason more don’t crash is because of the ability to anticipate.
When we have all driverless cars they’ll be in constant communication with each other. Instead of reading drivers behavior they’ll know instantly when something is wrong.
Everybody has dreams I guess but its the law of diminishing returns. Once you compress the space between cars down to a couple feet, if ever possible, that’s the end of the advantage, if there ever really is one. I suppose the DOT or EPA could then mandate shorter cars to squeeze a little more out of the roadway. But really this is only a problem in the major metropolitan areas, not the majority of the country-side. And as I have said before, the problems started, at least in Minneapolis, with the huge development in the downtown area. Before the 80’s traffic was not a problem. So I had to ask again who was the monetary beneficiary of the huge downtown development that outstripped the road capacity??
