@circuitsmith
Theft control is the best reason I have ever heard for owning a manual transmission. Park it anywhere and just leave the keys in it . Works for me. Now, if my wife will only buy that idea …
Years ago, I found marginally powered 4 cylinder cars to be vastly better with a 5-speed stick. This is a rough rule of thumb, though. Newer automatics that I’ve driven are really good. You really have to drive a car to know how the engine and transmission will work together. My BIL had a '95 Accord that didn’t look so good on paper (4 cylinder, 4speed auto), but when I drove it for a couple days, it had plenty of get-up-and-go. The main reason I like driving a stick is I’m ADHD, and my brain functions better with it.
My BIL had a '95 Accord that didn't look so good on paper (4 cylinder, 4speed auto), but when I drove it for a couple days, it had plenty of get-up-and-go.
Wife had a 87 and 96 Accord - both were 4cylinder and automatics. Never had a problem with get-up-and-go. It had plenty of power. Took us both a while to get use to her Lexus with the V6. It has a LOT more power.
One thing you can’t do with an automatic is to use a heavy throttle with early upshifts. I upshift between 2k and 2.2k with about half throttle and that results in 38 mpg on my 5 speed Saturn (originally rated 29/40, revised 28/36) in mixed city/highway and 25.5 mpg on my Nissan Pickup (originally rated 20/25, don’t know the revised), again in mixed driving.
Automatics always shift too high for me, really too high if using half throttle.
BTW, I’m not sure that all paddle shifters are dual clutch automatics, but for racing, the dual clutch automatic has a lot of advantages, mostly is the ability to change gears in about a tenth the time the best drivers can do with a single clutch manual, but it is a more fragile setup so for daily driving, I would be concerned about long term durability. Time will tell, same for CVTs.
While some hate the idea of an Automatic Transmission they are closing the gap in performance and mileage with the stick shift. My mom drove stick shifts from 1970-2009 but eventually the motion of shifting gear while working the clutch became painful due to back issues. Other than getting rid of her habit of hitting the phantom clutch pedal (or the brake)
We found that an Automatic is very handy to have while vacationing in the Uk and Ireland, one less thing for Dad to have to adjust to on narrow roads and while we didn’t compute gas mileage we seemed to be getting pretty good mileage even with the Auto doing laps around one particular part of England on narrow roads with 35-40 being the fastest we would normally go.
‘paddles’ and ‘dual clutch’ are two entirely different things. You can get every configuration of automatic with paddles (not in all cases, of course): regular slushbox, dual clutch automatic, and even CVT.
I don’t think people call them “standard” transmissions anymore. They are automatic and manual transmissions. “Standard” transmission is a relic from the days when manual transmissions came standard on vehicles, and automatic transmissions were optional. These days, you can’t even find an optional manual transmission on many vehicles.
In terms of the old fashioned kind of manual transmission (with a clutch), I’ve discovered one disadvantage is that finding a mechanic who knows how to do a clutch job is getting more difficult than it used to be. It’s getting to be like finding a mechanic who can rebuilt a carburetor.
I drive a car with a manual transmission, and I appreciate that at almost 250,000 miles, maintenance on the transmission has been easy and cheap. Manual transmissions beat automatics in terms of reliability hands down. With that said, my next vehicle will probably have an automatic transmission so my significant other can drive it and because a manual transmission is a pain to drive in stop-and-go traffic.
I’ll tell ya what, though – the mechanic that can rebuild the carburetor? He’s the one I want! Those are the good old days, when you had to rev the carbon out, MTs were called Standards, and wanting a Standard didn’t limit you to about five options.
Excellent point about theft control – lol, didn’t really think of that.
And for the one who suggested the Subaru - excellent suggestion, for most people. Unfortunately, my uncle is the one who does all of the maintenance on my car – he’s an old-time grease monkey who can rebuild carburetors all day long! And if I “ever bring a foreign piece of crap like that” in his garage, I’ll never hear the end of it! So, if I want a MT sedan with at least 200hp that gets around 23mpg (my Saturn currently gets 25 - so I was trying to stay close to that) that my uncle won’t disown me for, it leaves me with Buick Verano, Buick Regal, Chevy Camaro, Ford Mustang, and Cadillac ATS. Not bad cars, by any means, but I think I’d like just a bit more variety to choose from than that. Everyone’s comments about the advances of ATs has certainly helped me feel a bit better about it, though. And I guess I’m just going to have to try these new-fangled paddle shifters for myself…
In addition to theft control, a manual gives you a second way to start the engine, should your battery be too low to crank the starter. It has come in handy for me more than once, especially now that they don’t have backup hand cranks on engines anymore.
Heck, you can’t hardly even buy motorcycles with kick starters any more. I used to hate Honda’s simply because they were electric start. Electric start on motorcycles? Ya might as well just turn in your man card right now!
@Ininkitty
That’s sad that your uncle won’t work on foreign cars when there are aplenty of them made in the US. It’s also sad to think that any one qualified to work on a car with an American brand name should also be able to work on Toyotas and Subarus. Being able to rebuild a carb all day long is an archaic skill, even with American cars. Personally, I could not trust any one who could not or would not work on foreign cars simply because; there is very little difference in basic technology and all the skill working with one, easily translate and carry over to another.
Whatever…your best choice now, is a Mustang; it is poor in snow but a great ride otherwise. Too bad. For the savings of having an old time grease monkey work on your car,( under warranty?) you are missing out on some great options. IMHO, if you can afford a new car, you can afford to get service from someone else and buy SOMETHING YOU WANT.
It’s seems like – for new cars anyway – it is very difficult to find test data comparing mpg and 0-60 times for the same car, manual vs automatic. I’m wondering if this is a topic the manufacturers would rather not discuss. The fewer decisions the buyer has to make, the easier the sale maybe.
I bought my Cruze in 2011, and held out for the stick. I’d had a chance to drive both, and the stick is MUCH more responsive than the auto. As I mentioned elsewhere, I learned to drive rowing my own boat, and still prefer it. I looked at the mileage ratings when I bought my car and the auto war rated about 2mpg less than the stick. Do the math. The difference over the life span of the car isn’t chump change. Best I’ve gotten with it so far is 46.3. It usually averages between 38 and 41 between tanks, depending on how I drive.
I believe that it’s really 20-60 or 40-60 times that should be compared in road tests. They are much more repeatable and depend less on the available traction of the pavement you are testing on.
So much of a 0-60 time depends on what happens during the initial launch and the skill of the driver doing the testing. The automatic’s 0-60 times might be more repeatable than the manual transmissions’s 0-60 time.
Also, when you get to the catagory of stupid-powerful sprots cars, it’s hard to beat an automatic with traction control in 0-60, transmission efficiency becomes moot when more horsepower is just more wheelspin.
@BLE
You statements are born out by the fact that Indy cars are considered automatics, with paddle shifters. Nothing beats driving with left foot braking; something that’s impossible with manuals. It seems the greater the demand, whether it be plowing snow or racing, the great the consistent performance with autos. As to which is more durable, IMO, it depends on the maker and how much time, effort and expense go into it. One thing is for sure, manuals ARE less expensive to maintain and repair.
Somebody suggested Subaru–let me second that. When I went on a Subaru lot recently, I was very surprised to see a lot of standard transmission cars on the lot–in all different trim levels, too.
@ B.L.E.
I used to hate Honda’s simply because they were electric start. Electric start on motorcycles? Ya might as well just turn in your man card right now!
That’s funny!!! Back in the 70’s we had this Harley 125 that was a beast. You could hardly kick it over. If you tried to push start it, the rear tire would just slide even with two of us youngsters on the seat. When we went to sell it one guy thought it was siezed up because he stood on the kick start and it didn’t budge.
I recall trying to kickstart an old 80s 850 Yamaha I had. That was no treat either. I can’t imagine trying to kick start my 1400 if it even had that option. The starter needs the valve relief to have any chance of spinning that thing over.
I always liked electric start option but was really upset at first when the bike I was interested in didn’t have a kickstart option. Then I realized it would be nearly impossible to do so…
I’ve never ridden a bike with a kickstarter, and based on the horror stories I’ve heard about frustratingly trying to start bikes with them, I don’t feel cheated. I’m told by some of the old-timers I ride with that they never started on the first kick, and often didn’t start on the second kick either.
When my starter switch failed on my bike (a 750), I was able to push-start it pretty easily until I finally diagnosed the problem and rebuilt the switch.
The one time I had a completely dead battery with my Civic, I wasn’t able to push-start it. There wasn’t enough juice in the battery to get things going. I had to buy jumper cables to get the car home. Fortunately, it happened in the parking lot of a Target.
“Back in the 70’s we had this Harley 125 that was a beast. You could hardly kick it over.”
A 125 cc? With a piston the size of a shot glass? No wonder Harley quit selling them.
Our 250cc Suzuki twins were no trouble to kick start, road them daily.
Now an 850, that’ll take some leg…
@dagosa wrote “That’s sad that your uncle won’t work on foreign cars…”
It might be that the uncle was around for WWII and still isn’t comfortable dealing with our former enemies.
Do you mean in a like manner, the former enemies (white Germans) who are responsible for a good part of our space program. I would not be surprised if during his life time he ( uncle) didn’t own a plethora of " made in Japan" goods. . Bigots have to be untruthful with themselves and others in their bigotry. How does uncle rationalize OP niece who could have once owned a Saturn Vue with a Honda v6. He still would be tunning up a Honda.
It’s sad that some are so naive to think that even the electronics, sound system and other parts aren’t subcontracted to Japanese parent companies. One thing I never got…people won’t buy a car with a Japanese company name plate but they will buy a product with an American name but made in or by Japan or Japanese parent companies.
My neighbor would never own a Japanese car for similar reasons but buys nothing but Honda generators, Kubota tractors, Panasonic TV and a pontoon boat with a Suzuki outboard. I bet Uncle is as convoluted in his reasoning as my neighbor ! So, it’s now just in car buying we won’t do business with former enemies ?