That link goes to a rear (after (“downstream”) catalytic converter) O2 sensor. The Bosch 13117 is an upstream (before the cat) O2 sensor.
http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,2398304/initialAction,partTypeResultSet/initialN,16100117/shopping/vehicleSelected.htm
Ok, this is the other new O2 sensor that I have: http://www.autozone.com/R,2476364/vehicleId,2398304/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,2461/partType,00117/shopping/partProductDetail.htm;jsessionid=7F2443D960B43CAF9974D53D6E66515F , it is a front one.
I will install it and see what happens.
I replaced B2S1. So far so good.
I’ll go driving around tonight. I did let is run for about 10 minutes in park and watched my scan tool. I set it to show me all of the O2 sensor voltages in real time and they all oscillated from like .1 to .7 rapidly. I watched at the graphs for B1S1 and B2S1 and they both looked similar to this: http://www.enginecheck.co.uk/images/cat_graphs.gif (which is someone else’s graph), which I know is good. I should have done this before I swapped it out, but I didn’t think of it… Let me tell you, that B2S1 sensor is HELL to get to! Oh, and no stored or pending codes popped up. I’ll post after the drive. If nothing comes up, I’ll take it to be inspected tomorrow if anyone is open!
If your car has the original Bank 2 Oxygen Sensor electrical connector from the car harness, use your voltmeter, with ignition in RUN (engine OFF), to read the voltages on the red/light green wire (to PCM 87), the grey/red wire (PCM 91, signal return fo most of the sensors), and the red wire (POWER for all the O2 sensor heaters, and many others components).
The oxygen sensor heater (energized) is only turned on, by being grounded by the PCM, for a few seconds after the engine is keyed on, or running.
Well it looks like you have got the troubles taken care of Matthew. Good job.
Thanks Cougar! I’ll try that test tomorrow hellokit.
I just got back from driving the car about 8 miles, parking it for an hour, then driving it back 8 miles. No codes at all. I recorded some (selected) live data and graphed it:
http://www.badsushi.net/images/98_taurus_O2sensors_15aug08.gif
The oxygen sensor signals on the graphs look great! It takes a certain number of “drive cycles” before the engine computer can complete all of its self-tests after a part is changed, or battery power is disconnected (and re-connected) from the PCM. Look at the “I/M Monitor” Icons on the scan tool screen. Any that are flashing means that the test of that sensor system hasn’t completed…because there’s a problem, or because there haven’t been enough “drive cycles” since power disconnect, or parts change. The Emissions Test Station test computer sees all this. You can’t lie to it. So, it’ll be a few days before your car is ready for testing.
Tell us the names of the shops which charged you for parts they did not change. Use capital letters, in boldface type, for their names. Boldface type is done with a b inside left and right brackets [ ], NAME, followed by a left bracket [ , a forword slash / , letter b, right bracket ]. Use PREVIEW button to see what it looks like. To return to your draft, press EDIT button. To post, press SUBMIT.
From the scan tool:
Oxygen Sensors Monitor: INCONCLUSIVE
Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor: INCONCLUSIVE
Evaporative System Monitor: INCONCLUSIVE
According to my scan tool book, some states will allow an “Inconclusive” state, so I’ll check it out. EDIT: No, my state will not allow any “not ready” (i.e. “inconclusive”) test results… so I’ll have to wait… and keep checking. EDIT #2: my owners manual has a section on this, it doesn’t sound difficult so I’ll try to fulfill the drive cycle requirements tomorrow.
Here’s the thing about the mechanic (it’s a Midas), it’s my parents mechanic, and he is really good to them. He’s also been really good to me, I’ve gotten some great deals from him. ALSO, he did NOT charge me for all of the O2 sensors. He charged me for 2 when I really got 3 (though he said 5…). And even then, he was much, MUCH cheaper then what mechanics were asking for around where I live. So, I have to think about this.
Alrighty, drove it to work and here are the results:
- The Check Engine Light did NOT come on.
- No STORED Codes.
- 2 PENDING Codes: P0135 & P0155
FREEZE FRAME:
DTCFRZF P0155 <-- NOTE: I have not had this code in the Freeze Frame before…
FUELSYS1 CL <-- NOTE: In all the other Freeze Frames, this has been "CL_FAULT"
FUELSYS2 N/A
LOAD_PCT(%) 52.2
ETC© 181
SHRTFT1 -6.3
LONGFT1(%) -1.6
SHRTFT2(%) -1.6
LONGFT2(%) -3.1
RPM(/MIN) 2112
VSS(KM/H) 45
I/M READYNESS TEST:
Oxygen Sensors Monitor: INCONCLUSIVE
Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor: INCONCLUSIVE
Evaporative System Monitor: OK <-- NOTE: Yesterday this was “INCONCLUSIVE”
I have been wondering what the FUELSYS1 CL_fault means. I don’t know. Once the O2 monitor sets you may have enough monitors set to do the IM test. Some states only require that certain monitors be set in order to run the test. You may not need them all to be set.
As far as the mechanic goes it sounds like you got more than you paid for but he just didn’t tell you what he really did.
The manual doesn’t say anything, but after a google search it appears that “CL” is short for “Closed Loop.”
Closed Loop means that the engine computer(PCM) is actively controlling fuel injectors (etc.) based on active inputs from sensors.
The “pending” DTCs will become set DTCs, soon. The DTC P0155 means that the oxygen sensor (S1) heater circuit before the catalytic converter, for the bank 2 cylinders (B2), has a problem. The DTC doesn’t specify what the B2S1 heater circuit problem is.
The “pending” DTC P0135 means that the oxygen sensor (S1)in front of the catalytic converter on bank 1 (B1) is slow to respond.
Which of the oxygen senors are old, and which are shiny new? If B1S1 is old, now would be a good time to change it.All four are shiny new.
One of my original concerns was that one of the sensors could have been ruined early on. 3 sensors (all but B2S1, I replaced that one the other day) were replaced but the mechanic failed to notice a (very) ruptured vacuum hose attached to the top of the PCV. I drove it over a 150 miles with the hose still broken before it was noticed and I replaced it.
So basically, after all I’ve done thus far, I have yet to solve the underlying problem(s)…
Drove home. Now the pending codes are “stored codes.” However, the I/M Readiness for the O2 sensors are now “OK” as opposed to “INCONCLUSIVE”, isn’t that odd?:
Control Module
$10 SAE J1850 PWM
Since DTCs Cleared
MIL Status ON
Misfire Monitor OK
Fuel System Mon OK
Comp. Component OK
Catalyst Mon OK
Htd Catalyst N/A
Evap System Mon OK
Sec Air System N/A
A/C Refrig Mon N/A
Oxygen Sens Mon OK
Oxygen Sens Htr OK
EGR System OK
I’m about to post the live data.
========= EDIT ===========
I’ve attached all of the live data recorded just before, during, and after the car threw pending codes this morning. I have also created a graph of some of that data (the beginning) that you can see by clicking here: http://badsushi.net/images/98taurus_alldata_18aug08.gif
hellokit,
I am getting confused because I’m trying to follow your last set of tests and the wire colors are not matching up to the sensors I think they should match to.
Look at this image that I posted before, I have labeled it with the text in RED. Did I label it correctly?
http://badsushi.net/images/oxygen_sensors.gif
Also, when you say this: "If your car has the original Bank 2 Oxygen Sensor electrical connector from the car harness, use your voltmeter, with ignition in RUN (engine OFF), to read the voltages on the red/light green wire, the grey/red wire, and the red wire. "
Could you break that down even more for me? I switch the multimeter to VDC and put one probe on say, the red/light green wire and the other… If you had just listed two wires, I would have understand to put one probe on each, but since you list three…
Do you have the wiring diagram? The one at www.autozone.com seems good. Compare the wire colors from the diagram with the color of the wires on the car. The wire colors right before the O2 sensor won’t be the vehicle’s colors. You have to look at the wires before the connector to the O2 sensor’s wiring. Do a rough drawing and label each O2 sensor’s wiring colors. The color of the wires will (should) match a particular O2 sensor, and the wiring diagram.
When you measure voltage, you are comparing that part of the circuit to ground (usually, the body of the car, or engine). The positive (red) probe is touched to the “hot” wire, and the ground (black) probe is touched to the body.
OK BUDDY FIRST THINGS FIRST THE O2 SESOR NEEDS TO BE HEATED TO OPERATE PROPERLY AND YOU HAVE HEATER CIRCUIT CODES. IF THE HEATERS ARENT WORKING PROPERLY THEN THE O2 SENSOR MAY NOT SWITCH (GENERATE VOLTAGE)PROPERLY. SO MY ADVISE IS THIS CURE THE HEATER CODES FIRST Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P0135 P0141, P0155 and P0161 indicate a short to ground, open, or short to VPWR in the HO2S heater circuit. THIS IS AN EASY CODE TO TEST DONT START THE CAR BUT TURN THE KEY TO THE ON POSITION DISCONECT THE O2 SENSOR YOU WANT TO TEST THE HEATER CURCUIT ON LOOK AT THE SENSOR THERE ARE 2 WHITE WIRES, THESE ARE THE HEATER CURCUIT WIRES NOW LOOK WHERE THEY WOULD PLUG INTO THE VEHICLE HARNESS AND TEST FOR POWER ON THE VEHICLE HARNESS SIDE USING A TEST LIGHT ONE ON EACH WIRE THE LIGHT SHOULD LIGHT IF IT DOES NOT LIGHT THEN GROUND THE TEST LIGHT AND CHECH FOR POWER AT ONE OF THESE WIRES ON THE VEHICLE HARNESS IF YOU DONT HAVE POWER THAN YOU WILL NEED TO TRACE THE WIRE HARNESS TO FIND THE OPEN CURCUIT BACK TO THE FUSE IF THE LIGHT LIGHTS ON THAT THEN CLIP THE TEST LIGHT TO THE POS SIDE OF THE BATTERY AND CHECK TO SEE IF THE PCM (COMPUTER) IS GROUNDING THE HEATER IF SO THE LIGHT WILL LIGHT IF NOT TRACE THE WIRE BACK TO THE PCM TO FIND THE OPEN CURCUIT IF NO OPENS ARE FOUND THEN I WOULD SUSPECT THE PCM AND TAKE IT TO YOUR DEALER TO HAVE IT TESTED AND CONFIRMED THIS ITEM IS COVERED 8 YEARS AND 80 000 MILES ALSO FOR ABOUT 100 DOLLARS YOU WOULD BE SAVING ALOT OF MONEY IF THAT ISNT THE CAUSE BUT LETS LOOK AT SOMTHING ELSE BOTH O2 SENSORS ARE GIVING YOU CODES SO THE O2 SENSORS ARE PROBABLY NOT THE PROBLEM IT IS EITHER WIREING OR THE PCM AND DONT WORRY ABOUT THE DAMAGE TO THE O2 SENSORS UNLESS YOU SEE A BUNCH OF BLACK SMOKE COMMING OUT THE TAIL PIPE WORRY ABOUT THE DAMAGE TO THE CAT CONVERTERS THAT IS WHAT IS DAMAGED WHEN FUEL MIXTURES ARE WRONG GOOD LUCK
SO MY ADVISE IS THIS CURE THE HEATER CODES FIRST
Matthew,
I think the easiest way to check your O2 heater circuits is to measure the resistance of the heaters at the connector to the PCM. Remove the connector to the PCM and set your meter to read resistance. All 4 sensors have a common return lead that tie to a red wire on pin 71 to the PCM so one of your meter probes needs to tie to that pin and stay on that pin as you measure each of the other 4 pins, the other side of the circuit to each sensor. The other pins you need to check are as follows: sensor 1x1 pin 93, sensor 2x1 pin 94. These should be the front sensors on each bank, the ones with the trouble codes. The rear sensor pins are 95 and 96 and those should be ok if you want to compare readings to them.
I am not sure what the normal resistance of the heater element is but it may be a less than 10 ohms. If you have a real high resistance then there is a connection problem or the heater element is shot. I think you already proved the wiring to the sensors is ok but I can’t remember for sure. I assume all 4 heaters are the same but I am not sure of that. There may be a difference between the front and rear ones.
If the resistance of the front sensors looks good at those pins then the trouble is with the PCM.
Thanks a lot hellokit, drivetech1 and Cougar, it looks like I will be VERY busy tonight under the hood.
NEW PENDING CODE (the only one at the moment): P0455 “Evaporative Emission System Leak Detected (large leak)”
I have not had this specific code before, but since I have learned that a breach in a vacuum hose could be the root of all of my problems (I think), I am not surprised. Now, there IS a hose that I have not replaced, it is very dry and flakey. This hose connects to my “air cleaner outlet tube” and here is a picture of it: http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/jpg/small/0900823d801af7ce.jpg . So, just in case I will go to the store today and buy more hose (I’ll get extra this time!) and replace it. If I put my ear down in that area while the engine is running I do hear what I would call a hissing noise, but for all I know it is a normal engine sound…
I changed out the hose before I left work and drove home.
When I got home I quickly looked under the hood, and saw this, which I have not noticed before. I don’t know exactly what I’m looking at here, I’m investigating now, but it obviously is not good… Note: I have more than enough coolant.
EDIT: Well well well, apparently this the “EVAP system canister purge valve.” Maybe this is the beginning of the end ladies and gentlemen.
EDIT #2: Ok, so I don’t know what the hell this is… still looking…