# ‘Some states are seeing an increase in fraudulent odometer rollbacks on used cars’ **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585 "2025-06-10T03:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RandomTroll](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/randomtroll/32/12184_2.png) [@RandomTroll](https://community.cartalk.com/u/RandomTroll)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/1 "2025-06-10T03:28:38Z")
> ‘The Wisconsin DOT says last year, nearly 6,000 vehicles in the state showed signs of odometer rollback, more than three times the year before. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates nationally 450,000 vehicles are sold each year with false odometer readings. The data firm Carfax says, based on its computer analysis of car repair and oil change data and vehicle title transfers, it suspects 2 million cars on U.S. roads have rolled-back odometers, an 18% increase over the last four years. Maura Schifalacqua with the Wisconsin DOT says one of the main causes for the increase is that the rolling back of digital odometers found on modern vehicles is pretty easy. She sits in the driver's seat of a car and feels for what's called the OBD, or onboard diagnostics port, usually used for legit purposes by mechanics.’ https://www.npr.org/2025/06/09/nx-s1-5418046/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 5:12am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/2 "2025-06-10T05:12:40Z")
I’d have to look at the title but in Minnesota when you sell a car, you record the mileage on the title. If you don’t know or the odometer has been replaced, you can state that on the title. So it would be pretty hard for the buyer to not be aware of the reported mileage. Not sure what happens when they get laundered through a dealer. I haven’t bought a used car in over ten years. Maybe someone knows but seems like a fairly reliable system. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/3 "2025-06-10T12:12:56Z")
> [@bing](#): > > Not sure what happens when they get laundered through a dealer. I haven’t bought a used car in over ten years. In NH and MA the dealer must present the OD reading (signed paper from both parties) when the dealer bought the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/4 "2025-06-10T13:23:27Z")
Buy your own OBD2 reader and check 2 places… the instrument cluster and the ECU. They should match. If they don’t, maybe there was a rollback. I replaced a cluster on my 2013 Mustang with one from a 2014 to get the Track Pack cluster. I found a guy somewhat local (Ft Lauderdale) who reset my cluster’s mileage to match the ECU. It was not a perfect match… but it was within a 1 mile. I could see a difference in my OBD2 tool. But then I needed the ECU replaced. That mileage from the instrument cluster was now downloaded to my new ECU and they matched exactly when I sold the car. I was not trying to do anything nefarious but I can see how you could. ---
**Author:** ![JoeMario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JoeMario](https://community.cartalk.com/u/JoeMario)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/5 "2025-06-10T16:06:19Z")
I’m curious what the cat-n-mouse game over the years has been between vehicle manufacturers and makers of aftermarket rollback devices. I know 30+ years ago carmakers took an interest in smart flash memory that detected if numbers were decremented or incremented at rates above a certain threshold. I know at a minimum, the mileage is stored in more than one place in today’s cars. I’m curious what else carmakers have tried over the years to stay ahead of the aftermarket cheats. Does anyone here have an insight? ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 12:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/6 "2025-06-11T12:47:19Z")
> [@JoeMario](#): > > I’m curious what else carmakers have tried over the years to stay ahead of the aftermarket cheats. Beyond the warranty period, I don’t see why they would care unless there are federally mandated mechanisms to prevent it. The old mechanical odos had the wheels to scrape lines in the numbers if they went backwards or were disassembled. With the advent of digital odos, the only way is to have proprietary software and/or multiple locations to store the mileage. But, they need to support R&R in the field so there needs to be some way to set the odometer on the replacement cluster (or other storage locations). This invariably allows for nefarious usage of these tools. Personally, if they just made any changed part read zero to start, that might be better than providing a means to change it… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 2:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/7 "2025-06-11T14:41:40Z")
> [@TwinTurbo](#): > > But, they need to support R&R in the field so there needs to be some way to set the odometer on the replacement cluster (or other storage locations). [Mechanic shows us how easy it is to change odometer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yP9rOKgxU) ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 12:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/8 "2025-06-12T00:04:35Z")
Good reason to buy new, if you can afford it ---
**Author:** ![Old-Days-Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7feea3/32.png) [@Old-Days-Rick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Old-Days-Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/9 "2025-06-12T20:04:37Z")
I had touched on this topic and how it really effected older vehicles that had an alarming percentage of vehicles with rolled back odometers, complete with several realistic scenarios and was told rollbacks didn’t happen as often as I said despite providing irrefutable proof!. So dont worry about it, its a non existent problem! If odometer rollbacks didn’t happen much back when it was extremely easy to bust miles then it reall doesn’t happen much at all now being the difficulty involved. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/10 "2025-06-12T22:15:50Z")
There was a time when they would just roll all the odometers back to zero on used cars. Maybe they still do or maybe not now with the computer systems. At least then you had to evaluate a car on Condition instead of mileage. I have a little sympathy after usually having high mileage cars in great shape with highway miles. Impossible to sell when you tell them 350,000 miles, and I considered that low mileage compared to 400 or 500k. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 2:21am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/11 "2025-06-13T02:21:30Z")
Rick you clearly said 50-75% of vehicles had been rolled back, no one said it didn’t happen, just not at the rate you said it did… > [@The reason I believe newer cars last longer than cars 50 years ago did](https://community.cartalk.com/t/the-reason-i-believe-newer-cars-last-longer-than-cars-50-years-ago-did/200349): > > We like to talk about how newer cars just last so much longer than older cars did. We all know when a car 50 years ago reached 100k miles it was used up and worn out. Well wait just a minute. That is wrong! How could that possibly be wrong? We you see back then odometer fraud was rampant. Over half the cars sold maybe closer to 75 percent had odometers that were rolled back. People made much better money back then and bought new cars frequently. They also really piled the miles on them quickl… ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 4:22am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/12 "2025-06-13T04:22:24Z")
Yeah, that particular conversation quickly got out of control 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/13 "2025-06-14T14:51:01Z")
> [@RandomTroll](#): > > The Wisconsin DOT says last year, nearly 6,000 vehicles in the state showed signs of odometer rollback, more than three times the year before. The important question is how statistically significant is the Wisconsin DOT’s findings? I have no idea how many running, drivable vehicles exist in the state, including those which are currently registered for highway use, those which are currently in storage, and those which are in dealer/auctioneer inventory. I suspect that this number is higher than 6 million, which means that 6000 is a rounding error, at best. > [@RandomTroll](#): > > The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates nationally 450,000 vehicles are sold each year with false odometer readings. The important question is how many vehicles have had the mideage rolled back by unscrupulous sellers, compared to how many had the mileage changed because the gauge cluster went bad, and the owner bought a used one from a junkyard? How many vehicles are flagged as “odometer rollback” due to reporting errors, such as a repair facility or emissions technician typing the mileage reading wrong? ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/14 "2025-06-14T16:03:45Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > > [@RandomTroll](#): > > > > The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates nationally 450,000 vehicles are sold each year with false odometer readings. > > The important question is how many vehicles have had the mideage rolled back by unscrupulous sellers, compared to how many had the mileage changed because the gauge cluster went bad, and the owner bought a used one from a junkyard? How many vehicles are flagged as “odometer rollback” due to reporting errors, such as a repair facility or emissions technician typing the mileage reading wrong? Very true… And if my low schooling math is correct (used a calculator), with around 36.2ish million used vehicles being sold in 2023 (down from 2022), and only 450K being tampered with, doesn’t that come out to less than 2%?? Anyway, 450,000 is wayyyyyyyyy less than the 27,150,000 that someone else said they were… ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/15 "2025-06-14T19:40:10Z")
> [@davesmopar](#): > > Anyway, 450,000 is wayyyyyyyyy less than the 27,150,000 that someone else said they were… is that “someone else” in Indiana? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/16 "2025-06-14T21:24:30Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > reporting errors, such as a repair facility or emissions technician typing the mileage reading wrong? That occurs too often. When I enter “mileage out” on a repair order, sometimes I get a pop-up warning that the amount entered is lower than previous value. A review of the service history shows that a lube tech entered too many digits on the last visit, it shows more than a million miles. The service writers don’t catch the mistakes, they don’t review the repair orders. With repair orders I can dismiss the warning and enter the correct mileage. With the corporate system for recall data entry, I must enter a value greater than the mileage in the past. If a dealer in another state entered 1 million miles during a recall repair, I must enter the same mileage. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/17 "2025-06-14T21:26:31Z")
Math is hard. Likely used on a justification to hire staff. ---
**Author:** ![Old-Days-Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7feea3/32.png) [@Old-Days-Rick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Old-Days-Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/18 "2025-06-16T16:23:40Z")
> [@davesmopar](#): > > Rick you clearly said 50-75% of vehicles had been rolled back, no one said it didn’t happen, just not at the rate you said it did… Back in the 1980s over half the vehicles in areas of Texas had their miles “busted” I know it was prevalent in my area back then. If you were buying a used car around here you could pretty much guarantee that it had its miles busted. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/19 "2025-06-16T17:28:47Z")
> [@Old-Days-Rick](#): > > Back in the 1980s over half the vehicles in areas of Texas had their miles “busted” Prove it, I call BS. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 6:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585/20 "2025-06-16T18:00:34Z")
And how many vehicles were you buying back in the 80’s at the ripe old age of, what, between 5-15 years old?? lol And you do realize that most if not all mechanical odometers from the 80’s and and older only had 5 digits, show if it showed 40,000 miles, you didn’t know if it was really 140K, 240K, 340K etc etc, so why even roll the mileage back… Now did some vehicles show the incorrect mileage?? Sure, because a small % of people rolled the mileage back/forward, or the speedo cable broke, or the wrong speedo gear was used when/if the transmission was replaced (junkyard), or a taller tire was used without changing the speedo gear, or the cluster was replaced… [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/some-states-are-seeing-an-increase-in-fraudulent-odometer-rollbacks-on-used-cars/200585.md?page=2)