# Smaller cars risk level, Princess Diana's accident? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808 "2022-10-10T02:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sciconf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sciconf](https://community.cartalk.com/u/sciconf)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/1 "2022-10-10T02:56:48Z")
I am wondering if smaller cars can be easily disturbed - Diana’s car wasn’t small but it still rolled over! I am thinking if a car was hit on a corner, it can easily became unstable? Does it mean SUVs like Lexus RX 350h are safer? Which year used Lexus RX 350h is better bank for the money? I do not know if Tesla’s rolled over, heavy battery might have brought the center of gravity closer to the road? ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 5:15am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/2 "2022-10-10T05:15:15Z")
Regardless of size, for lots of cars the cabin remains relatively intact in a crash. So with seat belts and air bags, the idea is to remain inside the cabin while the rest of the car is destroyed. I’ve never been in a roll over but my dad was and said the hardest part was getting the belt unhooked hanging upside down. No injuries, the other guy was driving. Of course the other risk now is fire so you have to be able to scramble out quickly. ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 9:46am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/3 "2022-10-10T09:46:24Z")
Contact @TheWonderful90s, (he seems to know everything about crashing) by PM and you 2 can rehash this again in _ **private** _. This has already been beaten to death. > [@How hard is it to disable or adjust a seat belt load limiter to improve safety?](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839): > > I just learned about the potentially awful things called seat belt load limiters, and I would like to know if they can be disabled or adjusted. I’m most interested in Toyotas. Even information on how strong the load limiters are would be good. Load limiters are a good idea if the load limit could be adjusted based on the health, age, and size of the occupant. No car that I know of lets you adjust the strength of the load limiters let alone do they even mention that it exists. It is an important … > [@Newer, and later model cars are safer according to the NHTSA. Badly done statistic?](https://community.cartalk.com/t/newer-and-later-model-cars-are-safer-according-to-the-nhtsa-badly-done-statistic/182310): > > [https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812528](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812528) I wonder about stuff like this. In this case they didn’t take in to consideration that older cars tend to be driven by less responsible or lower income people, who may be more likely to drink and drive, have to work night shift where roads are more dangerous, and may be less likely to use a seat belt. It also doesn’t take in to account that there was an SUV craze going on, and later model vehicles may have had fewer fatalities n… ---
**Author:** ![Purebred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/purebred/32/46796_2.png) [@Purebred](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Purebred)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 9:58am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/4 "2022-10-10T09:58:28Z")
BTW, the car Diana died in did not roll over. At 00:23, Paul lost control of the car at the entrance to the [Pont de l’Alma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_de_l%27Alma) underpass. The car struck passing a [Fiat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat), swerved to the left of the two-lane carriageway and collided head-on with the thirteenth pillar that supported the roof, as there are no [guard rails](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_rail).[[27]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diana,_Princess_of_Wales#cite_note-29) It was travelling at an estimated speed of 105 km/h (65 mph)[[28]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diana,_Princess_of_Wales#cite_note-30) – more than twice the tunnel’s 50 km/h (31 mph) speed limit. It spun, hit the stone wall of the tunnel backwards and came to a stop. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/c/9/c9b2dd08e845504d53ea82c7edff583adc29b0ca.jpeg) Many factors involved in whether or not a vehicle will roll over. Surviving a roll over depends on cabin integrity and proper use of seat belts. Never been in a roll over crash. Have been T-boned at 55 MPH, have accidentally did a 360 degree spin, at a sheriff driving range have been in both vehicle doing a PIT maneuver, intentionally causing a car to spin. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 10:22am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/5 "2022-10-10T10:22:11Z")
> [@Purebred](#): > > the car Diana died in did not roll over. Thank you. When I read the OP’s statement about her car having rolled over, my first thought was… WTF? … because my recollection was that the car did _not_ roll over. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/6 "2022-10-10T11:53:27Z")
Any vehicle’s tendency to roll over is dependent on the height of the center of gravity (cg). Small sedans have a low cg. Trucks and SUVs have a higher cg. EVs tend to have a low cg because of the batteries. No passenger vehicles built today have enough traction to roll over on flat, level surfaces. In a double lane change, some can gain enough energy to lift both wheels, but manufacturers test for that and try to tune that out. Most roll over crashes are “trips”. A trip roll over happens when a sliding wheel hits a curb, soft grass, driving up the road divider, or the edge of the road falling away. High cg vehicles make this easier. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/7 "2022-10-10T12:29:51Z")
> [@sciconf](#): > > I am wondering if smaller cars can be easily disturbed If they are disturbed counseling can help . ---
**Author:** ![sciconf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sciconf](https://community.cartalk.com/u/sciconf)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/8 "2022-10-10T15:45:57Z")
> [@Purebred](#): > > BTW, the car Diana died in did not roll over. Tx. My memory was that it was hit on a corner which caused the calamity. It sounds like just that they did not wear the seat belt. The body guard who survived still went through a lot of surgery - was wearing seat belt? ---
**Author:** ![sciconf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sciconf](https://community.cartalk.com/u/sciconf)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/9 "2022-10-10T15:52:43Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > No passenger vehicles built today have enough traction to roll over on flat, level surfaces. In a double lane change, some can gain enough energy to lift both wheels, but manufacturers test for that and try to tune that out. > > Most roll over crashes are “trips”. A trip roll over happens when a sliding wheel hits a curb, … @Mustangman - could you clarify these - you are too concise. What does traction do to roll over - vehicle grips on to the road better - how? So when a sliding car hits a curb, it could roll over depending on cg - so an SUV has higher chances of roll over? ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/10 "2022-10-10T16:33:20Z")
If you don’t have a basic understanding of physics, the explanation will get very long. So… Read this and follow the links explaining the terms… > **[Vehicle rollover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_rollover)** > > A rollover is a type of vehicle crash in which a vehicle tips over onto its side or roof. Rollovers have a higher fatality rate than other types of vehicle collisions. > Vehicle rollovers are divided into two categories: tripped and untripped. Tripped rollovers are caused by forces from an external object, such as a curb or a collision with another vehicle. Untripped rollovers are the result of steering input, speed, and friction with the ground. Trailers that are not roll-coupled (i.e. those that... This is one of the Wiki links targeted at large trucks but it explains thing pretty well… > **[How do rollover accidents happen and what causes them?](https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/how-do-rollover-accidents-happen-and-what-causes-them/)** > > Rollover accidents cause injury and death. Here's why vehicles roll and what can be done to stop it ---
**Author:** ![Purebred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/purebred/32/46796_2.png) [@Purebred](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Purebred)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/11 "2022-10-10T16:45:35Z")
The article I read stated no one was wearing a seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![sciconf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sciconf](https://community.cartalk.com/u/sciconf)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/12 "2022-10-10T16:51:37Z")
> [@Purebred](#): > > The article I read stated no one was wearing a seatbelt. No one was wearing a seat belt but we spent time speaking about conspiracy a lot - few I remember was the ambulance did not reach the hospital but was waiting for something - other was some related people were found dead - there is a film too! ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/13 "2022-10-10T18:21:00Z")
The accident that took Diana was a long time a go . She was in some kind of limousine so asking for comparison’s of small cars and SUVs is a waste of time . Same for conspericies . ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/14 "2022-10-10T18:32:58Z")
Yeah exactly. I watched a 4wd bronco type one morning. The road was frosty and he went around me because I was too slow. Lost control, spun around and the driver side wheels caught the turf, bounced, and over it went. Bad day. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/15 "2022-10-10T18:46:53Z")
> [@VOLVO-V70](#): > > She was in some kind of limousine so asking for comparison’s of small cars and SUVs is a waste of time. Same for conspericies It was actually an S-class Mercedes. Not a limo, but definitely a BIG sedan. And, yes, a comparison with small cars and SUVs is clearly not valid. As to conspiracies, there is a tendency with a _lot_ of people to take anything which they fail to fully understand, and conflate it into some sort of conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![sciconf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sciconf](https://community.cartalk.com/u/sciconf)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/16 "2022-10-10T19:52:47Z")
> [@bing](#): > > Lost control, spun around and the driver side wheels caught the turf, bounced, and over it went I didn’t understand some of it.“…bounced, and over it …” - what do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/17 "2022-10-10T19:57:31Z")
It tipped over. Big tires bouncy. Like a bouncy house. In the air a little, came down on the tires and bounced. Over she went. Slow down. ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/18 "2022-10-11T02:15:14Z")
> [@Purebred](#): > > The article I read stated no one was wearing a seatbelt. The body guard that survived was wearing a seat belt. ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/19 "2022-10-11T03:56:45Z")
> [@sciconf](#): > > I am wondering if smaller cars can be easily disturbed The weight of the vehicle is only relevant when hitting another vehicle or unsecured object. Most non at fault accidents involve hitting another vehicle, so this is important! If you mean smaller in size, then the smaller the car is, the less space there is in front of you and behind you, and this makes the vehicle less safe in an accident. Short hatch backs are deadly for rear passengers in rear end accidents. > [@](#): > > I am thinking if a car was hit on a corner, it can easily became unstable? High riding vehicles often do roll over when in a severe accident on the corner (small overlap crash). Rolling over is quite common in a crash, but in city crashes usually the speeds are so low by the time it rolls over that it is not dangerous. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/c/6/c6000467faf65a38dbf9efff8c4455085d5bae6b.jpeg "Volvo Vs Suzuki Real Life e Crash Test..") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubtN3rlYUig) As you can see, real world bumpers are a lot different than the honeycomb thing that they use in the side impact crash test. They hit higher up, and in the real world the car being hit as also moving. > [@sciconf](#): > > Does it mean SUVs like Lexus RX 350h are safer? They’re higher up, so in city driving they’re better at protecting the passengers in a side impact crash when hit by another SUV. Such vehicles roll over more easily than cars do, so on divided highway driving they’re more dangerous than a car. But still not as bad as a real SUV or truck. Roll over accidents on Interstate highways are very common. A messed up lane change or merge in can send a vehicle sideways in to the center divider or off the road where it will usually roll over if it’s an SUV. It’s very dangerous because it’s still usually going fairly fast, like 40+ MPH, when the roll over starts. A young girl around here went in to a roll over accident at 70 MPH in an SUV and nearly died. Most of the divided highways around here don’t have outside guard rails and many don’t have center dividers. > [@sciconf](#): > > I do not know if Tesla’s rolled over, Tesla has a very low center of gravity and is least likely to roll over, along with the Corvette. One important feature to prevent roll overs is Electronic Stability Control. It’s an addition to the ABS that will apply the brake on the opposite wheel if the vehicle makes an uncommanded turn to one side. It helps prevent a lot of loss of control accidents on divided highways. If another car hits the back side of your car and sends you at a 45 degree angle off the road, ESC isn’t good enough to save you though. But it helps a lot in more minor mishaps. Before ABS it used to be possible to apply the brakes and skid the front wheels. This will force the car to keep going straight even if it is sliding sideways. If you get hit in the rear and you react fast enough you could save the car from going off the road. The rear wheels will keep turning and straighten out the rear. Now ESC does this for you, but not quite all the way. > [@sciconf](#): > > My memory was that it was hit on a corner which caused the calamity. > > It sounds like just that they did not wear the seat belt. The body guard who survived still went through a lot of surgery - was wearing seat belt? The car hit a corner. A sturdy concrete corner. It hit close to the middle, hitting the rear wheel drive engine directly, where the car is strongest. The crash is much different from a transverse engine in a front wheel drive car. The body guard was wearing a seat belt. He was also sitting in front of what was probably a powerful first generation airbag. The kind that will decapitate a bady in a rear facing child seat. The kind that hold a full grown man without bottoming out in a 35 MPH crash test with no seat belt. The kind that stays inflated for a fraction of a second longer after deploying so it can still protect you in a secondary collision. I believe the body guard would have almost certainly been killed in a typical late model single stage airbag equipped full size Toyota / Kia / Honda / Ford / Chevy vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![oldtimer-11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e79b87/32.png) [@oldtimer-11](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldtimer-11)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808/20 "2022-10-11T04:05:39Z")
The driver and most of the occupants had been drinking and were being chased by paparazzi. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/smaller-cars-risk-level-princess-dianas-accident/186808.md?page=2)