Secret Tricks of Car Salesmen

Maintenance/Repairs
81

Thanks for the additional info, Deep Plaid. I’m with you - am heading to town hall tomorrow, then to DMV if necessary - DMV handles the tax, registration, title, etc., here (town just records it for local personal property tax - never did understand why they deserve any dough just because I own a car).

I’m guessing I could take the papers from the dealer and go to DMV (and town hall) myself, but I don’t want to offend him/them - and don’t want to jeopardize future dealings there. As I said, it’s not them, it’s the computer/system they put the info into. Haven’t there been a couple of headlines recently about how easy it was for some one to hack into the CIA system? Can’t wait until we use “iris recognition” or some such.

BTW, I did fire off a “missive” to Tom and Ray about how kind you’ve been to hang in and answer so many questions, though they probably got a pile of emails already.

Thanks again.

82

sure-best of luck on all that. yeh there is hacking going on everywhere. if your still
worried, you can put a “fraud alert” on all 3 of your credit bureaus transunion, experian, & equifax(csc)
for free. but it makes it a lot harder for you to even get your free report once per year.
i use: www.annualcreditreport.com guard your social sec #, dl# and dob with your life.
hope this helps you.
best wishes,
deep plaid.

83

hi: sillyobear:
hey if you like my comments and answers…
send an email to the show’s producer: dmayer@cartalk.com
tell them how much you like my segment. any compliments you can give
will be deeply appreciated.
thanks,
deep plaid

84

hi silly o bear:
glad to shed a bit of light on your problems with your 07 gmc yukon xl
and thanks so much for your kind words & compliments!
be sure to let tom & ray and the show’s producer know how you feel
about my segment, threads, and my answers by
sending an email to: dmayer@cartalk.com
any compliments will be “deeply” appreciated!(lol)
glad i could help you!
thanks,
deep plaid

85

whitmore:
be sure to let me & everyone on the blog know what you found out at the town hall.
share the info so we’ll all know-ok? and thanks for you words of kindness.
thanks
deep plaid

86

Well . . . (hope this isn’t wasting your time) Went to the dealership today instead of town hall (time constraints). When the guy just kept insisting on $199 VIN etching (yup, you read right), I walked. I really wanted their little Honda Fit (don’t have $$ for a more expensive car right now), but I won’t be played for a fool either. Course I’m the loser at the moment, as no other dealer around has one. Should I go back and negotiate with another salesman?

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Whitmore

87

oh man your in a great position. tomorrow’s the 29th, next to last day of the month, oh man we got 'em!
rack’em up we are gonna run the table- are you ready?
deep plaid

88

Wow - I was so discouraged, I didn’t even check back in here, thinking you’d (rightfully) written me off as an idiot. Racked up, and ready to go . . .

89

whitmore: hey you can get a much better deal on the 30th if you want-just read your emails.
this is a perfect set up. the salesperson will chomping at the bit to move that car tomorrow!
these cars are not scarce! take a look on auto trader.com-
type in your zip code, Honda as the make , & Fit as the model,
2007-2008 for year and hit search -you’ll see!
take a look on autotrader.com use that as ammo! they aren’t hard to find i
printed out a list with 10-12 dealers scattered all over Ct. very close to your zip code,
print that list off,
here’s what to do: walk in with that list do not let him have the list
just show it to him. & show a check already made out to his dealership.
in the amount for $500.00 less than he said he’d take the other day…(off the bottom line)
don’t be cocky or smart alick just firm & business like,
lay the check in front of him, and say this offer is it “take it or leave it”.
are we gonna do business today or not ?
you got 2 minutes to decide, or act like your gonna tear up that check !!
& say: im going down the road. be nice , be polite, but be firm!
you should get your deal!tomorrow only!he’ll probably wanna meet you haf way.
in that case you still cut him him for the $199.00 plus another fifty dallars to boot!
so their ya go!
se if it works,
best of luck!
deeep plaid
let me know

90

You bet I’ll let you know, Frank! Can’t thank you enough for gearing me up for this. Well, I’d better fess up before I’m wiped across the floor tomorrow - I’m a less-than-young woman (totally dismissed by all car salesmen thus far). So keep your fingers doubly crossed, and if I don’t come back alive, it’s not your fault. It’s mine . . . for being born a “lesser being”.

I’m heading over to Auto Trader.com now (thank you!) and then I’m gonna do you proud tomorrow! Stay tuned . . . and thanks again muchly.

Whitmore

91

Okay, Frank! - - took your advice and ‘ran the table’ yesterday. I’ll tell you the whole story after I pick the car up on Saturday, because that’s when I’ll see if they add in that small extra I asked for. I don’t want to tip them off, since we know every dealer will be following this chat, right? - and I do want to name names so others (well, women) in this area won’t go through the same horror I did!

You may not be thrilled with the numbers, but it was a clean and pleasant!! deal. And, I tried a different ‘technique’ - thanks for coaching me.

Whitmore

92

hey whitmore-im sure you did fine. knowledge is power.
i may just have empowered you a small bit to gain the confidence
you needed to go in & “cut” your own deal.
that’s what my whole purpose in doing this segment
with these nice guys at NPR & "cartalk was for. you sure sound a lot more confident
now than when we first started. i just love that! way to go! i’m so proud of you!
best wishes,
deep plaid

93

I was definitely more confident due to your input, Deep Plaid! Thank you.

Well . . . after my last post, I headed off to a dealership where it was rumored that women buyers actually do cast shadows.

My back still bristled from prior horrific experiences, I went in (as you suggested, in a different way) with about 20 sheets of car comparisons I’d written out while doing research, and my calculator. They assigned me to a woman salesperson (hey, good sign - they even hire women there!) - but I knew from research to keep my war paint on. She was very pleasant, low keyed, but sharp as a tack.

I decided to work it a backwards. Asked if we could run the numbers on a Fit. I figured if you negotiate the price first, then all those slippery mysterious fees, etc., ooze in after, bringing the total back up. Why not nail those fees down first? Sly fox am I? Alright! - their doc and even DMV fees are indeed less than the other dealer write-ups! !

Now for the acid test - “You know, I don’t think I’ll be needing that VIN etching.” (That’s what produced the insult that made me walk last time.)

“No problem”, says she, “We’re just required to offer it”. Am I happy, or what!! Oops, not quite - now on to the price of the car.

Right. I had come in looking to buy a Fit. But while considering more closely, I decided that a woman my age would look pretty silly in a car marketed to teenagers. Okay, okay, the resale value did play a major part, too. So, I then thought that it was worth a shot to price the Civic, since there might be more “negotiating room” on it than the low-profit Fit.

The saleswoman graciously ran the figures, knowing I didn’t think I could afford the Civic. But, lo and behold, after a few minutes discussion, we agreed on the Civic “fair price” for the area (Edmunds), only slightly higher than the Fit. I did have you in the back of my head, and asked that they at least add in all-weather floor mats.

I know, I know. I can hear your disappointment at my not fighting the “fair market” figure harder, Deep Plaid. But I was plain worn out by previous dealership slammings, and these folks were so straight up and pleasant to deal with.

The mats weren’t mentioned again; the manager came over in person and we had an enjoyable chat while he finalized the paperwork. I decided to see if they’d remember to include the mats, just as my petty small test, of sorts.

Today I went to pick up the Civic. I was immediately greeted with a big smile by the saleswoman (Inez Hernandez), asking enthusiastically if I was excited about the car, and raring to show me all the features. Then, the manager (Bob Wuensch) couldn’t have been more reassuring about any future questions or concerns I might have.

And, unbelievably, even the only once-mentioned floor mats were in the car!

The entire process was a pleasure. Thanks in great part to the confidence you instilled in me, Frank! And if I overpaid, it’s only my fault for not pressing harder. But I’m very happy - I love my Civic LX sedan!!

And now - - (feel free to delete it if I shouldn’t say this, Frank, but boy, is it true) :

Bottom line - GREENWICH HONDA, CT was a total pleasure - clean deals and great people all around. (Honda of Westport - absolutely steer clear of - especially women!!)

Didn’t mean to be so dang longwinded. Can’t thank you enough for all your input, Deep Plaid!! Guess you can kiss your retirement goodbye, my friend, since your inside info and humor, are indispensable.

Most gratefully,
Whitmore

94

hello there whitmore.
well, well, sounds like you did it.
it sounds like to me you found a good
dealer. and it’s your money. so im glad you moved up to the civic.
im so glad you found a good salesperson and sales manager. see there,
that re-stored your way of thinking about new car salespeople.
(they are not all bad)lol their still are some good ones left!
so, stick with these guys, sounds like you found a new home over there.
and be sure to tell your friends and everyone from who & where you bought it!
great story.and happy ending.
thanks,
“Deep Plaid”

95

Thanks, Deep Plaid!
You had already proven that there was at least one good salesperson out there. Just had to find one more, that wasn’t retired, lol.
Thanks for all, and best wishes,
Whitmore

96

Hi, I was just wondering if there is really any benefit to the consumer during price negotiations if the costumer is paying cash for the vehicle? Do dealers look at it the same as if you’re financing through another institution other than them? I’m a soon-to-be mom of two in the market for a new (not used) vehicle, but married to a man who thinks if you can’t pay cash for a car upfront, you probably can’t afford it (I think his real issue is paying interest, but that’s another story). This would be the first car I’ve actually had a hand in purchasing as my current car is nearly 10 years old, and the purchase was handled by my dad as I was 18 at the time. So I feel a bit like I’m being thrown into the deep end here.

So does paying cash give you more negotiating power, and if so, to what extent? Or does it really matter to the dealer given that if you aren’t using their F&I, they aren’t making additional money off you? Also, I had a friend who went to a dealership to purchase a new vehicle on a cash sale (one of the ones I’m shopping) and the dealer wanted to run a credit check (he went elsewhere and purchased without being asked to do the credit check). Is that a normal practice? I would assume that if you’ve got the cash on hand, then they don’t need anything other than the info necessary to file the title, etc. I live in CA, if that helps at all. Thanks!

97

hello: c koleva
sorry about delay for the reply. this is a very good question. im gonna be thorough with this one, because you had to wait. first off,
there are actually 3 phases:
1.the car phase: selecting a vehicle, make, model, features etc. etc.
2.appraise your trade: if applicable (don’t play games about this part, we don’t like that.)
3.the financing phase: the term, interest rate, insurance,extended warranty. etc.
remember: the trade difference is the most important number to remember!
#'s 2 & 3 may or may not apply to you. do some homework ahead of time. call you bank or credit your union
first about financing, do some home work! do some homework! do some homework first!
i just cannot stress that enough do your homework!!on all 3 phases before you go in to talk to a sales person. go in with a clear head,
very important: allow yourself plenty of time to shop and make a decision.
know your bureau score ahead of time.>go to annualcreditreport.com once a year.
get all three of credit bureaus on your and spouse if applicable,
get your credit reports for free. transnion, experian, equifax (all three)
get these ahead of time, on line, before you visit a dealer be prepared.so,do your homework.
while in the car shopping process, never “co-mingle” phase#1 -the automobile, type,
model, accessories, features,engine, color, interior, etc. etc.
with phase #3 the financing: term, interest rate, credit life, a&h , warranty payment,
keep your business with the salesperson, and your business in the f&i manager’s office
completly seperate. if you don’t , you’ll get yourself more confused and usually screw yourself out of some $$dough if you dont. first do some homework about the type of car you want, make, model,equipment features, engine size, available options, accessories, etc. etc. get yourself kind of a track to run on there, with that before you go in and ever meet a salesperson, & he’ll appreciate an educated consumer too. and a good salesperson can save you time as well.
keep phase #1 -the car deal , & phse #3 the financing phase seperate.
then after you’ve test driven, some models, narrowed it down,
& decided on your vehicle, & your 99% sure you want it…then and only then,
go talk to f&i manager about the finance phase#3. tell him you know your bureau scores on all 3.
let him know going in your no fool. and you expect courteous and fair treatment. dont be “cocky” or pushy
with him. be business like, courteous and firm with him.
know how much money you have down to pay.(ahead of time)
usually as a rule if you have an excellent bureau score of like (750+) & (know this ahead of time)
example:if you have a score of 780 on experian, and your spouse has 690 on equifax,
they (the lender) will pretty much try and use that lower number.
(to drive up that interest rate they can charge you)
if your income alone will carry the loan, don’t use your husband’s/wife’s income. leave them off thenn loan, if he/she is not with you, do not give out any of your spouse personal info to sales person or f&i manager: such as name, ss#, dl#, or dob. unless you intend to use a lender thru the dealer’s f&i office,
do not give anyone at the dealership your permission to run a credit check on you or your spouse.
note* they will need your signature(s) to perform that.
so, don’t sign anything prior to purchase unless you are absolutly sure of what you are signing.
read and understand before you sign anything. it’s not needed and it’s illegal for them to ask a woman if she’s married. get your score on all three bureaus, ahead of time, the interest rate at your credit union or bank will probably be lower than that at the dealership. unless your gonna go zero interest, thru g.m. or ford
etc etc. then because the f&i man is adding points to the “buy rate” (that’s the wholesale interest rate the lender gives the dealer), & according to state or federal banking laws the f&i mamager can add some points to that wholesale rate if he desires. and when he quotes you a payment he’s usually already added some points to his “buy rate”. this is, (only if you you want to finance thru the dealer)
on a “zero interest” loan it’s easy to figure: total price after taxes fees transfers etc .
subtract your down payment, then divide that amount by the number of months to be financed. and that’s your payment. if they try and add a warranty or credit life etc. then your payment will be higher of course.

in my opinion , & (that’s just me-ok, because i’m a salesman)
about the leverage a consumer has with -cash vs. finance-no, their is hardly none.
to me their was effect on me. i just wanted that sale. i didn’t care where they were getting the money.
i knew realistically it would be paid at some point before i delivered the car.
so, either way it didn’t matter to me. i just wanted to make the sale
and get that car moved out of there. most dealers are pretty much “stingy” when it came to “spiffing” (giving a bonus) to their salespeople for helping sell finance, & dealer f&i.
so i never tried very hard to solicit it to my customer. i was busy creating a rapport and getting the right car to fit their lifestyle and their wants and needs.
their is a lot of money to be made(for the dealer) in that phase too,
the dealer gets nice “kick backs” from a lender if financing is done in their f&i office at the dealership. the dealer will usually pay his f&i person a pretty good commission & salary to do that too.
that & usually never paid the salesperson hardly anything to help sell it.
but, ckoleva, if there is an advantage at all it’s small at best, in my opinion,
it’s not gonna help you get the price of the car cut very much at all. $100.00 to $200.00 bucks maybe…??
try it right at the last moment if you wish, but saving 2-3% percent in finance charges
on a 5,6,7, year note will be a far greater savings to you than any $100.00 to $300.00 off the price of the car. so in my opinion, if you are going to finance…
worry about that interest rate you’re paying more than you worry about the vehicle price.
a lot of people miss that part.
some consumers just worry about is that payment amount.
and for him…if you do that - well ,you are considered a f&i manager’s dream come true.
don’t fall in that trap!
i sure hope this helps you.
write me anytime.
thanks again for your question.
sincerely,
Deep Plaid

98

And speaking of plaid, toupees, and sans-a-belt slacks, hope this brings a little levity into what can be a grim situation. :slight_smile:

99

now that’s funny!!
thanks,
Deep Plaid

100

Thank you Frank for letting us peak through the keyhole into the salesman’s lounge. I appreciate the “1-2-3” approach to shopping for a car. Regarding step 1: aside from “hidden” rebates given to dealerships without the salespeople knowing of them, is the internet “dealer invoice” fairly accurate? And if so, knowing exactly what we want, is it fair to “mini-deal” with an offer like $250 over invoice?

Regarding step 2: is it fair to completely ignore the trad-in value until step 1 is complete? My experience has been that some salespeople “mush” the trade-in price within the price-figuring tally (with a bottom line price literally on the bottom line as if it were non-negotiable) to make the deal seem better than if it were left out. Incidentally, the trade-in price was low-balled (by the “specialist” on site that “wholesales out” the trade-ins) because “that is how it is in our area.” This didn’t match with an internet trade-in evaluation using a zip code. Just how much wiggle room is there on trade-ins?

FYI: This dealership uses the “NO-HAGGLE” rule and therefore didn’t want to even hear about “invoice plus” offers from me. They were pretty rude about it so do I have a leg to stand on next time if I want to readdress the haggling issue?

Eeek, so many questions. Tell Tom and Ray to give you a raise.