@cwatkin: I feel about Fords the way you do about Chrysler products. I have never owned a Ford that hasn’t let me down at a bad time for it, but I’d admit they’re making a lot better and more attractive products than they used to. And it’s hard to not like a Mustang anyway…
If you look through this site though, I would say that despite everyone complaining about the 2.7L engine, there don’t seem to be an abundance of posts on either this engine or any of the vehicles in which it was installed. I would say I would not buy a vehicle with a 2.7. But I also wouldn’t buy a Subaru that’s prone to blowing head gaskets, a Toyota that’s prone to sludging, a Honda that’s prone to bad transmissions, one of the Fords that’s prone to the frame rusting out, and the list goes on and on. You can find a bad design in any manufacturer’s lineup in the last couple decades or so.
$5 worth of gas in the tank of an Escalade? That’d be just enough to get you to the next gas station…
@texases, I thought it was a reasonable question asked in a reasonable manner.
The question was: “Anyone here big into oil analysis? I have never done it but have always been curious. If so, has anyone found a favorite oil or at least a favorite oil for the car it is being run in?”
I’m thinking the answer is simply “no,” and I didn’t have to drive “many millions of miles … in … many cars” to be able to give that answer.
Yeah, it seems like 100% of the Chrysler 2.7 vehicles I knew people with had a catastrophic engine failure. The routine scenario was that the engine started burning massive amounts of oil and smoking, then a rod knock, then catastrophic failure. I am well aware that there are Chrysler engines that don’t seem to be designed to self destruct but I have seen issues with the 3.9 V6, 3.7 V6, 4.8L V8, and the latest Hemi too. I know two people who had oil pressure issues with the 3.7 and I guess this was a known problem around year 2000 or so. I had one as a rental vehicle one time and it seemed that anytime I pushed the engine hard at all, it would leave a nice smokescreen behind me. This vehicle had 20,000 miles and an unknown history to me being a rental but maybe it was driven really hard and the oil never changed. I know a couple that had valve seat issues with the 4.8L and one with the latest Hemi. Yeah, I don’t think too highly of Chrysler products overall.
Another friend who agrees with me went through several different models (2.7 included) with several different engines. His final Chrysler was a Jeep with the 3.7. I don’t recall him ever having an issue with the engine but he replaced several transmission control components and had the rear differential come apart on him while driving down the highway one day. Needless to say, he moved this one along while it was still running. He went to Nissan after that and has never looked back.
It would be interesting to see a chart of how severe reliability issues are with various brands, not just the number of problems. For example, I consider issues with the engine and transmission to be on a different level than software issues in the entertainment system. Ford has scored low on reliability charts lately and it is mostly due to the entertainment systems acting up from what I understand. I have a friend who is a born and bred Ford man that recently purchased a new Focus, only to realize that listening to the radio is now a major pain. He sometimes has to turn the car off to “reset” the radio so it will start playing again. I understand there was a time where GMs had many minor electrical problems.
As for the Escalade, I know its reputation as a gangsta vehicle. It is about showing off bling in most cases. You have to love the crazy rims they put on those things.
Ford has scored low on reliability charts lately and it is mostly due to the entertainment systems acting up from what I understand.
I’ve never seen a one of the surveys like CR that doesn’t breakdown the problems due to area. A entertainment problem won’t show up in the list of Engine problems.
@Whitey Agree; over the years I’ve used all manner of oil, from house brands to Mobil1. For normal operation in non-turbo Japanese or US car, there is no difference in what you use. For trailer towing and extreme weather, I’ve used Shell Syn-Arctic (the first oine on the block) and Mobil 1.
The last time I did internal engine work was on a 1957 Plymiouty 6 in the summer of 1964. In all other cases the engine and transmission outlasted the rest of the cars without any overhaul work.
I wonder if an oil analysis would have helped me back about 1972. I had a 1965 Rambler with over 100,000 miles. I change oil faithfully every 3000 miles. I used Quaker State Superblend 10W-30. I had an oil passage in the block plug up and no oil reached the rocker arms. An independent shop pulled the cylinder head, chucked a piece of speedometer cable in an electric drill and cleaned out the passage. My total cost including a new head gasket was $38.75.
Sludge in oil passages was a problem with overhead valve cars back in the 1950s. There were outside oil lines available for many cars that allowed bypassing the lines in the engine block and going right to the rocker arms. Oil analysis might have really been useful back then to see if there was a brand that minimized the sludge problem.
I do use synthetic in the snow blower. Not because it has magic powers to last longer, but it does start easier. I use my diesel tractor motor oil in my small generator and lawn mower; cause I had a couple of quarts lying around.
I don’t see how an oil analysis can account for sludged or coked oil inside of oil galleys.
The analogy might be a slugged up main sewer line a few blocks from me some years ago. The water flowing through the pipe to the sewage lagoon looked pretty clean but most of it wasn’t getting through the pipe.
The same goes for the lagoon itself. A glass of water from that lagoon looks crystal clear in the light; the lagoon walls and bottom not so clean and clear.
I would expect an analysis of oil starting to coke or sludge inside oil galleries to show a large amount of such particles in the oil too. Oil is intended to keep a certain amount of dirt in suspension so that it can be carried to the filter and/or drained out during a change. I would expect that a loss of the oil’s ability to carry dirt or too much dirt would show up in an analysis. I know they look for acids, signs of multiple wear metals of which different types can indicate issues with different components, indications of coolant being burned (intake or head gasket, etc.), amount of remaining additives, viscosity, and such. I know a guy with an aftermarket turbo who changes his oil like every 1500 miles. I think he should use a synthetic but I think he is worried about causing oil leaks which I understand isn’t really a problem anymore.
It would be interesting to run an oil analysis on a small engine without an oil filter as I can usually see small metallic flakes present in the oil. This is especially bad when an engine is new and the first oil change looks like metallic flake paint coming out of the engine. I like to run new small engines no longer than 30 minutes before the first change because of this phenomenon. I usually then run them another 2 hours before the next change which is usually the suggested timing of the first oil change in the manual. I often run a synthetic for the first season or so to make sure the engine is good and broken in, then change to synthetic. I still see some metal flake with synthetic so there is still some wear of course but it is usually less than when I am running conventional.
@cwatkin YES, an oil analysis would show carbon in excess of what is normally encountered. A good engine is not supposed to carbon up, and regular oil analysis is not cost-effective. Therefore doing this regualrly to your car makes no economic sense.
With today’s engines, the oil stays clear usually until the 5000 mile interval is reached if all is well with the engine. Should either one of my cars show black oil at this stage, I would take note; not because it’s black, but because it was clear the last time around. When cars had carburetors and chokes the oil was always black at drain time.
That’s what trucking companies do; the oil is changed every 10,000-20,000 mile dependiong on the size of crankcase and the duty. Changes in oil composition are the most important indicator. Truck engines cost about 10 times as much as car engines and are expected to go a million miles or so.
I don’t see how an oil analysis can account for sludged or coked oil inside of oil galleys. @ok4450–I’ll buy your analogy. The best way then, is to follow the oil maintenance schedule in the owner’s manual and use the severe use particularly if one does a lot of in-town stop and start driving. Even doing this, I still had the problem with my 1965 Rambler. The oil passage in the block had a sharp bend where deposits would collect. The independent shop that did my work had seen this problem before with that particular engine.
I am sensitive to the sludge problem. I had the problem on a 1955 Pontiac as well. I purchased the car used from a new car dealer whose service department had overhauled the engine before they put the car on the lot. The rocker arms were stud mounted and the oil came through the studs. The sludge would plug up the studs and then the rocker arms would chirp. I never was able to completely eliminate the problem. If I would travel on the highway over 100 miles, the problem would occur. I had the studs pulled out and cleaned and the passages in the heads cleaned but was never completely able to solve the problem. In 1955, an oil filter was an option for the 1955 Pontiac and the one I purchased did not have that option. I did purchase an oil filter and mounting from a salvage yard, removed the block-off plate on the engine and installed it. Since the rocker arms were stud mounted and there was no rocker arm shaft, there was no way to install outside oiling lines.
When I read posts about some Toyota engines and some Dodge engines having the sludge problem in the past decade, I wonder why the problem wasn’t completely solved when it had been a rather common problem in the 1950s. At least in the 1950s, outside oil lines were available for some engines to supply oil to the valve train.
Like I said before our 57 Ford that was bought new had rocker oil problems. Had it back in the shop several times and think they said something about the oil holes weren’t drilled poperly. I was only 9 years old though so might have gotten it wrong. My Dad used to keep an oil can in the car and actually squirt oil on the rockers from time to time. Traded it for a 58 Chev the next year. You don’t expect to have to oil a new car.
99.5% of users can just buy the right weight of oil, and just be done with this. no oil analysis, no over analysis, no speculation.
who cares if your last 3 months of driving habits allow you to not change the oil for anothe 2.1 months. do you really adjust your change inverval per the prior analysis? if yes, great for you, but most folks just follow the 7500 miles or whatever their manufacturer tells them.
I think a lot of people (maybe not most people) just either go by the “change oil” message if their car has it (and it’s been on for a while), or treat changing the oil and other maintenance in the same fashion as: “Oh, I’ve been meaning to clean out that closet for some time now.”
“Like I said before our 57 Ford that was bought new had rocker oil problems.” @Bing–Fords weren’t the only engines in the 1950s to have this problem. The Chevrolet 6 cylinder engine also had this problem. Interestingly, my dad had a 1939 Chevrolet that he drove over 100,000 miles (it was overhauled at 70,000) and that engine never had the problem. It was splash lubricated with an small oil pump that provided about 20 psi to the rocker arms, cam and mainshaft bearings. It seems to me that the later versions of this engine with full pressure lubrication began to have the problems of plugged oil passages. I have often wondered if this problem may have been caused by the detergent oils that became available in the early 1950s. Perhaps some of the particles held in suspension by the detergent oil got deposited in the oil passages. Tom McCahill was not fan of detergent oil. In his book, “What You Should Know About Cars” published in the early 1960s, McCahill stated that he would rather have the particles build up a crust in the bottom of the oil pan like an old pipe rather than being whipped through the bearings of the engine.
However, with today’s cleaner burning engines, improved oils, etc. I don’t think there is any excuse for the engine sludge problem if the oil is changed per recommended intervals.
Yeah I do remember the start of the whole detergent vs. non-detergent oil debate back in the late 50’s. I just remember Dad would get farm store oil in the two gallon cans. Seems to me it was non-detergent commonly used then. I’m trying to remember how he got back down to the store again after he forgot to put the plug in the pan and dumped the new oil on the ground. Must have had enough left in the two gallon can. I didn’t pick up any new words that I hadn’t already heard though.