# Saab's Demise for the Car Talk Blog **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** saab\ **Created:** [December 20, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058 "2011-12-20T04:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![steve63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@steve63](https://community.cartalk.com/u/steve63)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/21 "2011-12-21T23:35:51Z")
Triedaq, was that Pacer by chance a 1975? ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/22 "2011-12-22T01:08:46Z")
steve63–I should have proof read the post. Yes, it was a 1975 AMC Pacer. Once I got some of the kinks straightened out, it was a good car. Its width made it quite stable on the road. The hatchback was very convenient. The right hand door was long–even longer than the left hand door. My son was a toddler at the time and it was easy put his car seat in the back seat and secure it. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/23 "2011-12-22T02:24:28Z")
The thing is with the fixed manufacturing and dealer network costs being so high, you have to be able to make hundreds of thousands of cars in order to spread the costs out. If you don’t have a mass appeal, you’ll never be able to sell enough cars to stay in business. Unusual is fine but you’ve got to keep the price down enough to generate reasonable sales. SAAB just couldn’t generate the sales or lower their costs. Pure math. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/24 "2011-12-22T02:31:02Z")
Similar to what happened to Studebaker many years ago… ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/25 "2011-12-22T03:13:27Z")
… contrary to published reports in 1966, Studebaker was actually “in the black” at the time of their shutdown. Moving all of their operations to Hamilton, Ontario had reduced their expenses sufficiently for them to actually make a profit–and they were making a profit at the time of their shutdown. However, the NY bankers who essentially controlled the company at that point decided that they just didn’t want to remain in the car business any longer, and thus, the plug was pulled on a patient that was still viable. Some years later, a business student who had a chance to intensively analyze the company’s books (after the fact) came to this conclusion, and it is part of his dissertation, which was later published under the title of _Studebaker: More Than They Promised_. Going forward, the problem would have been securing the financing necessary to produce the tooling for the next generation of Studebakers, which were a visually stunning “clean sheet” design, and would most likely have been competitive. It is very likely that they would have gone under at some point in the future as a result of financing problems, but there was actually no need to kill Studebaker at the point when it was done away with. ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/26 "2011-12-22T03:26:34Z")
Trie…"It seems to me that cars that were different didn’t survive." I hear what you are saying. But whether it be the Cord, Nash, Pacer or Edsel; the differences they seemed exhibit were unrefined. FWD with the wrong application (Cord too big) and with out the the technology of today and aerodynamics (Pacer too much glass and no air) and without the room along with no long term commitment to evolve into something useful is doomed to fail. The Saturn splashed on the scene with it’s gimmick plastic panels then became just another “me too” car. The ones that last, with just a few exceptions. use tried and true technology and evolutionary not revolutionary styling. There was no evolution for the SAAB 2 stroke…mine was the end of the line. Both my SAABs were “peculiar” and innovative but poor daily drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/27 "2011-12-22T03:38:45Z")
I agree that the Cord was finnicky with its unrefined front wheel drive. The Edsel had no technological breakthroughs and the styling was really gaudy. However, the Nash and Hudson of the late 1940s were very reliable cars and quite roomy on the inside. The 1949 Nash 600 was called the 600 because it could go 600 miles on a 20 gallon tank of gas. It was a true 6 passenger car. The Hudson was a very comfortable road car and its great handling helped it win many stock car racing events. Both of these cars rode better, handled better, and had more room than the Chevrolets and Fords of that period. (I’m old enough to remember riding in these cars when they were new). I never owned really exotic cars when I bought my own cars because I had to depend on the cars for daily transportation. The French Citroen appealed to me, but I guess it was a bear to keep running. ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/28 "2011-12-23T19:20:25Z")
Edsel had no technological break throughs…push button shift on the steering hub that the automotive world still hasn’t caught up with…thankfully. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/29 "2011-12-23T19:25:05Z")
…and, in fact, the push-button trans mechanism on the Edsel was problematic–unlike the system on Chrysler products. On the Edsel, exposed electrical contacts on the outside of the transmission case were very prone to corrosion, as a result of having no shielding from water and road debris. More than a few Edsel owners found themselves unable to move their car as a result of no electrical current going to the servo motor that shifted the transmission from Neutral to Drive. ---
**Author:** ![bscar2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bscar2/32/2468_2.png) [@bscar2](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bscar2)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/30 "2011-12-23T22:21:16Z")
with some of the retro stuff coming out, I’m surprised they HAVEN’T made push button transmissions again. Though my mom wouldn’t know what to do if she had a push button transmission; she likes to put it in reverse, start moving backwards, throw it in neutral and then drive while she’s still moving backwards. I think it’s Jaguar that has that little floaty turny knob for it’s gear selector, or maybe that was Mercedes. And how long before the gear lever is removed in favor of a touch screen display ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/31 "2011-12-23T22:49:47Z")
bs–Does she also have to look at the shift quadrant while shifting gears? I am constantly amazed to see how many people have to look at the shift quadrant, despite having driven their car for several years. After an initial “getting-acquainted” period, it just seems to me that folks should know by “feel” which gear they are in. And, even if you can’t judge by feel, the indicator on the dashboard of modern cars will indicate which gear the car is in. However, even with that bit of technology, I find that almost all women (and many men) have to look at the shift quadrant. ??? ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/32 "2011-12-24T05:22:56Z")
The problem I find doing this is the shift points are linear and very close. Make one mistake and go backwards instead of forwards and…not good. The gate shifters are somewhat better…but nothing beats a manual for feel. I confess, I look. ---
**Author:** ![bscar2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bscar2/32/2468_2.png) [@bscar2](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bscar2)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/33 "2011-12-24T09:14:28Z")
VDC: I’m not sure, it’s been awhile since I rode in her car, but I think she might glance down at it. I think it has an indication on her dash, but can’t recall from the one time I got behind the wheel of it(basic 05 Cobalt with crank windows). And I don’t know why she, or most anyone, would look, it’s not like it’s a stick shift and you gotta find the right gear placing, the lever only goes back and forth; my Mazda does have the crocked positions for the lever, but I find that it doesn’t really matter to me. On a side note, I’ve heard some modern transmissions will stall the car out if the driver does what my mom does. I would find this quite humorous if she got one of those vehicles; though I think she’d blame the car for being a piece of crap rather than her shifting skills. ---
**Author:** ![littlemouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@littlemouse](https://community.cartalk.com/u/littlemouse)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/34 "2011-12-25T14:45:47Z")
@Triedaq: Pacers rule! The sheer width! Or am I thinking of Gremlins? ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/35 "2011-12-26T01:31:57Z")
littlemouse–the Pacer had the width. It was wider than the Gremlin. ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/36 "2011-12-26T03:46:00Z")
The Pacer was immortilized by Mike Myers in a dumb movie called “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure”. The car was perfect for the role. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/37 "2011-12-26T04:40:29Z")
**"The Pacer was immortilized by Mike Myers in a dumb movie called “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure”. "** Actually, Doc, the movie with Mike Meyers that featured the Pacer was _Wayne’s World_ (released in 1992). _Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure_ (1989 release) starred Keanu Reeves, and did not have any AMC products prominently featured. ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/38 "2011-12-26T08:56:32Z")
A Pacer station wagon was used in the movie “Oh, God” starring George Burns and John Denver. ---
**Author:** ![bscar2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bscar2/32/2468_2.png) [@bscar2](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bscar2)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 9:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058/39 "2011-12-26T09:04:52Z")
An old Nickelodeon show called _Clarissa explains it all_ had the lead girl wanting a Gremlin really bad. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/saabs-demise-for-the-car-talk-blog/70058.md?page=1)