Averages snow fall doesn't mean a lot if the snow drifts or it comes all at once.
But when it comes all at once…you only need 4wd for the 1 day before for the plows go by. When it snows like in upstate NY where they average 200"/yr…you get MANY of those 10" and several 5" and even 50"+ days…So the NEED for 4wd is far greater. 1-2 10" days…4wd is nice…but I wouldn’t consider it a MUST.
The Civic would have been good for at least another 140k if your girlfriend had done the maintenance. I doubt the salesman told your girlfriend not to maintain the car. The mechanic can’t tell the difference between an original timing belt and an OEM timing belt that had been installed at 90,000 miles.
The timing belt on this Civic is not rubber or flimsy. It is made of composite materials that include rubber and steel reinforcement. When I had my first timing belt changed at 90,000 miles, I inspected the old one, and it looked like new. When you keep up with the maintenance, this car will easily last more than 240,000 miles.
@MikeInNH I grew up in snow country around the Great Lakes and never had a 4WD vehicle. We did have good snow tires with studs until they were outlawed. Driving through snow drifts on country roads was fun; you had to keep up momemtum and just barrel through them like aboat hitting a wave. The WW wipers had to be on to clear the snow off the windshield.
For really bad weather if we HAD to go out we put chains on but that happened only once a year or so. My sister still lives there and although my briother-in-law had a Jeep 4 WD truck in the 60s and 70s, his current truck is a 3/4 ton Chevy with 2WD!!!. He says he does not need 4WD these days.
I grew up in snow country around the Great Lakes and never had a 4WD vehicle. We did have good snow tires with studs until they were outlawed
I agree not ALL places do you NEED 4wd. Where I grew up in Pulaski NY…4wd was very much desirable. Needed…depends on your job. We averaged over 250" snow a year. Some towns on the tug-hill plateau where snow fall is usually above 300"…and you commute to Syracuse or Rome for work…it’s difficult to survive without 4wd.
But places like South Indiana…no way do you NEED 4wd. Not even close to getting enough snow to justify it. I have a 4wd 4runner…but it’s NOT because of the NH snow…But because I visit family all the time in upstate NY…and I do some off-road camping (sometimes pulling a trailer on a dirt road).
“But places like South Indiana…no way do you NEED 4wd. Not even close to getting enough snow to justify it”.
@MikeInNH"–Have you ever lived in Southern Indiana in the wintertime?
In some counties, the terrain suggests that a 4 wheel drive is needed if you must get out. The snows aren’t frequent and snow removal equipment is not plentiful. In the southeast corner ust off highway 1 is a ski slope.
Different areas and different people have different needs. Now I live in east central Indiana, but have traveled through southern Indiana numerous times in the winter. I’ve done camping in the area even in the winter time. Areas that get a lot of snow have the snow removal equipment. I was in Detroit some years back doing consulting work. A major snowstorm hit and the major roads were cleared and I was able to leave by late afternoon in my rear wheel drive Ford Maverick. On the other hand my wife was in Vincennes, Indiana in the southern part of the state and could not get out for two days to come back to east central Indiana. The buses cancelled all runs in and out of the area. Only the few 4 wheel drives in the area could move.
I’ll add another reason for 4 wheel drive in east central Indiana. I know a person whose wife is a mail carrier for the U.S. postal service. She bid on one route, but has to furnish her own vehicle. She bought a vehicle with 4 wheel drive and right hand drive. Some of the routes, on the other hand, are covered by carriers using vehicles provided by the postal service that are 2 wheel drive. Apparently, there has been a real problem with the carriers using the 2 wheel drive vehicles rocking the vehicles to get them unstuck on the routes. As one could imagine, there have been quite a few transmission failures in the postal company vehicles. Four wheel drive would have been a worthwhile investment. Remember, the carriers are expected to get the mail through and are expected to get themselves “unstuck”.
Another HOPELESS DISCUSSION…ugh What you mean an improperly maintiained vehicle broke down?
Total neglegence and lack of PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE resulted in bad feelings again?
Next you will be telling me that Oxygen is corrosive… Huh? EXACTLY
BORING
Blackbird Out…
@HondaBlackbird Not quite as hopeleless as you say! Rick is learning a great deal on this forum. He has already learned that Corollas are durable cars when well maintaned and that gas mileage is important. By the end of the month he will be well enough car-educated to objectively buy a vehicle that suits him or his girlfriend.
@ Triedaq - Have you ever lived in Southern Indiana in the wintertime?
The question is…Have you lived in NH or upstate NY during the winter?? Tens of thousands of people have no problem getting around with a fwd vehicle every day WITHOUT 4wd. For the so few days you get a little snow…you can stay in.
My niece is a teacher in Mexico NY…They don’t shut down schools there unless it’s OVER 10" of snow…If they did…they’d be going to school year round. Most people in that are do NOT have 4wd…If they don’t need 4wd…there’s no way southern Indiana needs 4wd. Sorry…just not buying it.
Apparently, there has been a real problem with the carriers using the 2 wheel drive vehicles rocking the vehicles to get them unstuck on the routes. As one could imagine, there have been quite a few transmission failures in the postal company vehicles.
None of our carriers have 4wd vehicles. I’m on a rural route…so the vehicle is owned by the person delivering the mail. He has no problem delivering the mail in Honda Element.
Maybe the real problem is learning how to drive in the snow.
@mikeinnh Mike have you ever been to southern indiana? If you NEED to get out, which I do because of my job, you need 4wd in the winter at certain times. I don’t work an office job where I can call in. I am a lineman and restore YOUR power when it goes out due to an icestorm while you are at home waiting for the roads to clear up.
I bought a caprice today to drive since no you really don’t NEED 4wd MOST of the time here in southern indiana.
@WheresRick Looks like Glenn Campbell wrote a song with you in mind. In view of the nature of your job, your employer should provide you with a 4WD vehicle. Just driving to the office or dispatch shop should not require 4WD though. My 1988 Caprice had the 305 V8 and Positraction. That, with snow tires never had me stuck. During one of the worst snow storms I was a few minutes late at the office, but many of my Jeep owning colleagues stayed in bed and phoned in that they were “snowed in”.
Good luck with the caprice. Hope the paint job on yours is a better quality than mine. I sold the car for $1400 in 2007 after 19 years of good service.
Yes believe it or not, even the cassette player works! As far as my girlfriends car goes I think she is getting a new civic. The old one is beat, its been in a frame bending wreck at some time and the ac doesnt work, no fault of the car, someone didn’t put the positive terminal insulator on the battery and the hood rod clip was broke and somehow the hood rod shorted out between the positive post and the ac line causing the line to rupture and possibly ignite the freon, All I know is there was a call telling me my car was on fire, it may have just been the cloud of freon.
@docnick Thanks, I just can’t get with the modern times, love the old road sofas. Only thing that would make this caprice better is if it had front drums.
@WheresRick Mine had the F41 handling package which gave it stiffer springs and front and rear HD stabilizer bars, and shocks and a faster steering ratio. The police versions all had that. It did hold 4 of my ski bum friends and their gear. The roof gutters allowed for a sturdy roof rack. Unfortuately after a day on the slopes they all went to sleep on the way home, except me of course.
@MikeInNH–I’ve driven in Minnesota in the dead of winter with regular cars. I drove back from a conference in St. Paul where I had presented a paper in a snowstorm in a Ford Windstar that my institution provided for me from its motor pool. I didn’t have any problems. I got in at 4 a.m. in the morning, returned the vehicle at 7:30 a.m. and then went to my building to teach my 8:00 class. We found that the roads were cleared faster in Minnesota and Wisconsin faster than they were in Indiana. The worst part of the trip was 25 miles from our home. Our street isn’t plowed and my wife had a position that demanded she be at work. Besides, I am not one to be trapped in my house. There were several occasions where both my wife and I made it to work and I had to cover classes for colleagues who couldn’t get in. My wife did a lot of recruiting of graduate students at other institutions and was expected to be at these institutions for recruiting fairs. If the weather was questionable, she took the 4Runner and got a mileage allowance rather than using one of the institution’s vehicles. I’ve made the trip to the ski slope in southern Indiana. I’ve gone down there when the only vehicles that could get there were 4 wheel drives. I’ll be damned if I am going to sit at home when I could be skiing. We also have a toboggan slide in a state park in the northern part of the state. I want a vehicle that can take me there as well so I can have some fun. The only way I’ll give up the 4 wheel drive is if Chevrolet brings back the Corvair.
My only comment about the mail carriers is that their life would be easier when we do have the snows and the sides of the roads aren’t plowed so that they can reach the mailboxes if the postal vehicles had 4 wheel drive. I think the postal department would save money in the long run by purchasing vehicles equipped with 4 wheel drive.
" I’ll be damned if I am going to sit at home when I could be skiing."
And with that, the argument for or against 4 wheel drive is officially at an end.
Agreed that good tires that are appropriate for the situation make all the difference in the world.
@mikeinnh Mike have you ever been to southern indiana? I
Yes…and even in the winter…Sorry…but compared to where I grew up…the amount of snow you get in a year is LESS then we average in 2 weeks…Sorry…still not buying that you NEED 4wd. Are there days where you might not be able to get to work without 4wd?? Maybe!!! According the National Weather Service…it’s about 2-3 days every decade.