# Rotation of tires **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Tags:** toyota, camry\ **Created:** [February 14, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878 "2017-02-14T18:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/21 "2017-02-15T20:34:07Z")
It is troubling how something like tire safety, which is preferably objectively determinable, can be subjective (people seeing and thinking what they want to). And people who sell tires don’t necessarily help remove the subjectivity: [http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=85](http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=85) Take away message (at least to me)? If tires are at 4/32nd or less, slow down in slippery conditions, and slow down even more if on a curve. ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/22 "2017-02-15T20:51:16Z")
Tire safety is subjective because loss of performance is gradual with loss of tread depth. How much loss is tolerable varies with individual driver. Re. CapriRacer’s test 4/32 was a good choice to assure conclusive test results. I would think if the test were done with new tires shaved to 4/32 on one end and 5 year old tires of the same type at 4/32 would also show handling disparities. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/23 "2017-02-15T20:57:04Z")
> [@Waterbuff](#): > > slow down in slippery conditions, and slow down even more if on a curve. Me thinks that would apply no matter what tire thread, age or type of vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/24 "2017-02-15T21:05:48Z")
(my point) Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/25 "2017-02-15T21:14:15Z")
Yes, but isn’t subjectivity between 4/32 and 2/32 a little too much? Especially where a tire is warrantied until 2/32, suggesting that it is ‘ok’? And 4/32 in a shaved new tire versus a 5-year old tire makes the issue even more complicated. It’s possible that 5/32 or 6/32 (or more?) in a 5-year old tire is already the same (or worse) as the shaved new tire. How would people know objectively? ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/26 "2017-02-15T21:29:51Z")
> [@Waterbuff](#): > > How would people know objectively? By doing tests, which the typical driver will ever do. So we’re left with the subjective. Without DMV mandated safety inspection lots of folks will drive below 2/32 in a state of ignorant bliss, like the one who once rear-ended me while sitting at a red light on a rainy night. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/27 "2017-02-15T22:34:46Z")
> [@CapriRacer](#): > > The tire manufacturer I retired from used to hold a yearly demonstration of new products at its proving ground. Part of this was a demonstration of the principle behind putting new tires on the rear. > They set up 3 identical cars - one with 4 new tires, one with new tires on the rear and shaved to 4/32nds tires on the front, and one with new tires on the front and shaved to 4/32nds on the rear. > The course was a 200 meter diameter circle with a small section of it covered with water, with a large runoff area immediately after. The object was to drive all 3 cars through the water at 45 to 50 mph. > The car with new tires drove through the water without incident. The car with shallow tires on the front, new tires on the rear hydroplaned in the water but exited nose first and could be brought to a stop under control. > The car with new tires on the front and shallow tires on the rear, swapped ends in the water and could not be brought under control under it had stopped. > Over the years, thousands of people experienced this themselves. It was conducted on FWD and RWD, But that’s the kind of thing that stands up very well in court. Thank you for posting something factual and scientifically-based, but I am afraid that even this evidence will be rejected by those who believe that most personal injury lawsuits are bogus, and that scientifically-based studies like this are “a manifestation of a tort system run amok”. Of course, those are undoubtedly the same people who still think that McDonald’s was blameless in that personal injury “hot coffee” lawsuit that they famously–and validly–lost. 😏 The bottom line is that the tens of millions of dollars spent by the Koch brothers and other right-wing ideologues have taken root, and many people have been convinced that up is down, black is white, and that no personal injury lawsuits have any validity. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/28 "2017-02-15T22:58:30Z")
Nice “cheap shot” VDC, but I never said the science was bogus. I even went so far as to explain the science. Explain to me how you can accuse someone who explained the science as thinking the science is “bogus”? Allow me to clarify: 1. the science is valid 2. the policies for new tires being on the rear result from the fear of bogus tort suits 3. the Koch brothers have nothing to do with any of this. How you could manage to twist this all into blaming the Koch brothers is beyond me. Perhaps you could explain that one? And, by the way, black is a total absence of light energy in the visible spectrum. White is a high level of light energy throughout the visible energy spectrum. Would you like me to explain to you the various wavelengths in nanometers, or perhaps where photons come from? I don’t like being insulted with “cheap shots”. I believe that people who take cheap shots tell more about themselves than they do about the target of their cheap shots. And in this case, the statements that comprise the cheap shots don’t even make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/29 "2017-02-15T23:04:27Z")
What objective test is available to the typical driver? We’ve gone over how tread depth alone isn’t enough. Do you suggest adding hardness? There are gauges available. If it was that simple, why isn’t a test already out there? ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/30 "2017-02-15T23:05:36Z")
Please leave politics for other bulletin boards you visit. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/31 "2017-02-15T23:12:18Z")
**_I own several cars. I never rotate tires._** I live **above** the 45th parallel where driving conditions are less than ideal for half the year. Like @bing the last time I spun out was in 1966 on **Atlas** bias ply tires and I haven’t been in a ditch, nor have I hydroplaned in the past 5 decades. There are old drivers and there are bold drivers, but there are no old bold drivers. I run on _All-Season_ tires. I leave the tires where they live so that I can “read” the suspension system. That way I know if or when I need an alignment and/or have a problem. I would go nuts screwing around with all those rotations, anyhow. I have better things to do … Fore! _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/32 "2017-02-15T23:24:36Z")
The bottom line–as far as I am concerned–is that a few extremely wealthy corporate oligarchs have been successful in convincing the American public (to their eternal corporate advantage) that personal injury lawsuits are **always** without merit. A more objective approach might suggest that each case should be decided on its own merits, rather than disposing of them in total. There is no question that the shadowy Koch Brothers have spent **a lot** of their inherited fortune on advancing their own cause, and on stifling lawsuits against them and their friends. htttp://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2016/01/22/koch-brothers-donors-hold-desert-gathering-next-weekend/78817052/ > **[How the Koch Brothers Mess With the Texas Environment (Revised)](https://www.opednews.com/populum/page.php?f=How-the-Koch-Brothers-Mess-by-Mary-Bell-Lockhart-110811-9.html)** > > A revision of earlier article on the influence of the Koch brothers on the Texas environment. Contains new information about Koch Industries involvement in oil commodity trading. [http://www.corporatepolicy.org/2013/04/15/134/](http://www.corporatepolicy.org/2013/04/15/134/) > **[Tort Reform — Chaney Law Firm](http://www.chaneylaw.com/tort-reform/)** > > Tort reform is a code word for taking away local control. Juries are the ultimate in local control, and juries' rights are guaranteed by state and federal Constitutions. Unfortunately, politicians swayed by lobbyists are trying to take local control... [http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/02/the-koch-bros-alec-and-the-power-of-the-state/](http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/02/the-koch-bros-alec-and-the-power-of-the-state/) > **[The Koch brothers’ group is getting involved in Louisiana’s Obamacare fight](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/02/08/the-koch-brothers-group-is-getting-involved-in-louisianas-obamacare-fight/?noredirect=on)** > > The state chapter of Americans for Prosperity wants lawmakers to pledge opposition to expanding Medicaid. ://bridgeproject.com/research/koch-impacts-florida/koch-sponsored-american-tort-reform-association-backed-multiple-tort-reform-projects/ Even though I derive a substantial portion of my income from dividends on “big-cap” stocks, my personal ethical values still allow me to decry the tactics of corporate oligarchs like the Koch Brothers, who have somehow managed to pervert reality to conform to their goals. 😔 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/33 "2017-02-15T23:44:37Z")
I’ve only spun out three times. The first time, I was coming home after being discharged from the service… in a terrible blizzard, what we call a “Noreaster”. I was behind the state plow on a limited access highway and it left a plow bank across the exit I needed. I figured the only choices were to try to bust through the plowbank or stay behind the plow and hope he didn’t go straight past the next exit 20 miles away and leave a bank there too. I figured there was a good chance I was screwed either way. So I swallowed hard, held the wheel, crossed my fingers, and tried to bust the banken. The banken lifted my car and spun it down into the adjoining gulley. That was in 1974. The second time was in the mid '80s. I hit ice in my '79 Toyota pickup on an exit ramp. My bad. The third time was, again, in the '80s. I was going slowly and carefully west on Rt 2, a treacherous road in Massachusetts, at about 5AM in January and hit black ice. The truck simply started to slowly rotate and slid down off the highway crown, totally uncontrollably. A cop came up behind me and he almost lost it too, even though his cruiser was far better setup for bad weather than my Toyota pickup. More weight, better distributed. He probably had better tires too. And studs. I guess anyone who drives above the 43rd parallel can’t expect life to be perfect. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/34 "2017-02-16T01:01:04Z")
Our fleet’s inspection sheets for cars and light trucks clearly states that tires with less than 4/32" tread depth must be replaced That’s cut and dry, as far as I’m concerned ---
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/35 "2017-02-16T02:12:49Z")
That is interesting. I wonder if tire manufacturers have fleets with the same rule. Wouldn’t that be interesting for the public to know before buying a manufacturer’s tires… ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/36 "2017-02-16T02:19:40Z")
I don’t understand what you are driving at. 4/32 is a recommended replacement point so what difference would anybody’s fleet replacement point mean. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/37 "2017-02-16T02:35:40Z")
I think what we are missing and some of us are saying is that the driver makes a big difference in what becomes a hazard and what doesn’t. Bald tires on a clear dry road with a good driver can still be fine but 4/32 in rain or snow with a bad driver is not so good. When I was a kid, no one put new tires on until they were pretty much bald and now we are at 4/32, even though the wear bars are at 2? Just a note though, the poor Koch boys kept their money in their pockets this year and still get blamed. In fairness though you should mention the damage Soros is currently doing to our democracy in support of insurrection. Or Bloomberg and his buddies. Just outrageous really but at least the Kochs are patriots. ---
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/38 "2017-02-16T02:40:37Z")
If tire makers were known to replace their fleets at 4/32nd, it adds to the question of how they can adequately warranty an unsafe tire. ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/39 "2017-02-16T03:40:00Z")
Say what . . . ?! Are you under the impression that I work for a tire manufacturer, or that I service a tire manufacturer’s fleet of vehicles? If so, get that idea out of your head right now I’m a mechanic maintaining and repairing a city’s fleet of vehicles. I’m a public employee, so everything is pretty much spelled out in writing, including the criteria for tire replacement. That’s what I was getting at when I mentioned our inspection sheets ---
**Author:** ![Waterbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f07891/32.png) [@Waterbuff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Waterbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878/40 "2017-02-16T03:45:10Z")
No, I wasn’t suggesting that you were connected to a tire maker. I was wondering if tire makers might have fleets with similar rules… and what that might mean. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/rotation-of-tires/99878.md?page=3)