With present models grand-fathered out of the tax, once introduced, the market for performance cars would be drastically cut and some of the grand fathered models would hold a high plateau on their value for years while newer performance models would be very rare and very exclusive similar to performance and luxury cars in Europe today. Basic, affordable transportation is all most people want.
Good thing you know whatās right for most people. I mean why should a person of normal means be allowed to get behind the wheel of a 400+ HP sports car? They should be happy behind the wheel of beige 4 cylinder Camry and be dammed grateful you allow them that privilege?.Right?
1 Like
I donāt propose that you not be ALLOWED to drive a 400 horsepower muscle car. I have owned and enjoyed a few of them. But the beige Camry is a much better daily driver.
Depends on the person. I enjoy my 400 HP daily driver. The Camary wouldnāt be anymore practical for me. Iām a single guy, I have no use for the added interior space and extra door, the extra fuel economy is all but a moot point, my commute is 4 miles. So fuel costs arenāt a huge concern either.
The innocent lives wonāt be saved with mandated technology. The dare devils and idiots seem to find a way to bypass anything science can devise. I saw a news story of a convicted drunk driver whose car had a breathalizer interfaced into the ECU and required a ācleanā puff to allow the engine to start. The drunken fool had his young son blow for him and then drove to buy more booze carrying the son so he could restart the car to come home.
OP Quote: āCars built with a myriad of electronic gadgetry will be as disposable as laptops. Too much potential failure for marginal benefit.ā
I agree for some featuresā¦but just the opposite is true for most. Hasnāt electronic fuel injection proven infinitely more reliable and with less maintenance than a carb ? Has the electronic ignition system proven much more reliable then points and condenser ?
The nearly now standard variable valve control has done away with valve adjustments. The ICE can now go 100K miles with but oil changes. I would argue too that the manual crank up window would need to be repaired far more often than the electric window that replaces it if it were used as much. Would you go back to the mechanical cruise control that routinely gave up in many cars after 5 years and fewer than 50k miles ?
I could go on, but I need to change the Ipod preference mode on the music Iāll be listening to in my car. Isnāt that infinitely more trouble free than what ? 8 track and tape eating cassette players?
I would argue that the most reliable items in your car are electronic while the least are mechanical. Itās just that there are so many more of them and their failures are made more public, over the electronic media of courseā¦
I agree with those that say āenough alreadyā. Iām tired of having ābig brotherā tell me whatās good for me, only to find out it isnāt so good after all.
I was able to stock up on incandescent lightbulbs (to be banned starting in 2012) and Tylenol (still being considered for controlled drug status by the FDA), but I canāt stock up on cars.
I hear the Cleavland Cavs are looking for someone. All youād hafta do is warm the bench the whole season and Iām sure theyād pay you quite handsomely. THEN you can start stocking up on cars with those millions of dollars 
Mechanics already have to be electronic experts. Rebuilding motors or doing similiar work is probably only 10% of our work load. Motors go over 300,000 miles easy now.
DVD players built into seats,sunroofs and windows,ABS, Traction control,cruise control,audio systems ,and electronic gremlins are the norm.Also squeaks,rattles and plastic noises are top of the list for repairs.
Donāt you think cars w/o electronics would sell if they performed as well, were as safe, were as reliable or as cheap to make. Everyone seems to be under the impression that electronics are more expensive that mechanical systems. The opposite is true. So return to the horse and buggy. So of us are contradictions when we think we can negotiate modern high speed highways, safely and for hours and years for that matter, on end as reliably and in comfort w/o electronic aids.
Hang your head out the window to cool off if you wishā¦Iām adjusting the climate control.
We control freaks have to find some thing else to do with our free time than adjust points. Weāll have this same discussion again when steering and braking are electronically controlled (isnāt it already in some cars).
1 Like
And that right there is the reason why Iām glad you arenāt in control of the universe. 
There are extremely stupid people out there on the roads.
Some of them drive POS cars, and other drive big expensive Muscle Cars.
A lot seem to drive Volvoās and Subaruās.
Stupid people will always find a way to crash their car.
I canāt tell you how many accidents I see that have taken place in perfectly dry conditions, on a flat straight road, in light traffic conditions.
Can you tell me how that happens?
Stupidity is the only answer.
I already pay an annual tax on my vehicles, its called insurance.
Oddly enough, my Boxster costs less to insure than my Altima.
I donāt tailgate people on the road, but yet Iām always being tailgated by other drivers.
I donāt weave in an out of traffic, but I do plan my lane changes to get around strings of slower vehicles that refuse to keep right, like the law clearly says, but you canāt get the police to enforce.
The best of handling and safety packages can easily be defeated by crap tires, or poor brakes. All can be defeated by stupid drivers, or cheap owners.
Cars today are safer than cars from 30 years ago.
I really donāt want to go back to driving my 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix, with its 3.8 V-6, when both my Boxster and Altima with 2.5 engines produce way more power, handle considerably better, and are much more fuel efficient and comfortable than it ever was. Plus, the a/c works in these two cars, and never did in the GP. Neither did the tape deck, for that matter.
If you donāt want ABS and traction control, donāt buy a car with it.
Donāt buy a new car.
Lots of old iron still out there for you to buy, and there always will be.
BC.
Whatās needed then is a breathalizer that can tell if the right person is blowing.
Maybe a small ultrasonic transceiver to measure the mouth cavity.
Iām all for technological improvements that reduce costs. Generally, those also improve reliability. Most of those listed by the Brothers increase costs. I think the technological ābells & whistlesā are great for those that choose it. My beef is with those that mandate it.
The mandated safety devises ? When we find out that stability control saves as many lives as seat belts and head rests, which by the way were railed against years ago, may be some will change their tune. I use my seat belt and I wear a helmet while biking. Iām also NOT ever going to buy a car w/o stability control as I do believe itās benefits far out way itās perceived faults. One, being the ability to do ādonutsā.
Cars built with a myriad of electronic gadgetry will be as disposable as laptops. Too much potential failure for marginal benefit.
Maybe some manufacturers have a problem making them reliableā¦But cars Iāve owned in the past 20 years have 10 times more electronic gadgetry then cars Iāve owned in the 70ās and early 80sā¦and they are far far far more reliable.
The innocent lives wonāt be saved with mandated technology. The dare devils and idiots seem to find a way to bypass anything science can devise.
Youāre comparing apples to orangesā¦OF COURSEā¦no safety device will ever help the kid driving 100mpgh in a 30mph zoneā¦no one ever said thatā¦And there is yet a device to thwart the drunks who insist on drivingā¦
But some of these high-tech devices seem to show they do help the AVERAGE driver avoid accidentsā¦My traction control on my 4runner helped me outā¦I was doing about 50 on I495 when all of a sudden two cars went flying into a ditchā¦(black ice)ā¦my traction control took over and I was able to control my vehicle around it without incidentā¦A total of 11 cars lost control in that areaā¦
Excellent pointā¦I remember when seat-belts were first mandatedā¦My father was LIVID (he never used his seat-belt)ā¦I wonāt drive a car without oneā¦and everyone whoās in my car WILL WEAR THEIRS - if notā¦WALK.
The biggest problem with adding all these features is: tah daaa yup the cost of the vehicle is going to skyrocket and as expensive as they are now and people canāt afford them, We will likely be forced to walk or jump on a bike. Instead of all of these extra features they should be focusing on fuel economy and making a vehicle that is affordable for everyone. There is no reason why these companies canāt make an affordable vehicle and my belief is that if they were to, they would get ten times the profit they are getting now with their expensive vehicles. So no please do not give these companies fuel to burn our only chances to afford a vehicle in these extremely tough economic times.
I donāt think soā¦
MOST of the luxury features in cars today are NOT mandated by anyoneā¦And they all drive up the costā¦and people are still buying themā¦When was the last time you even saw a car with crank windowsā¦or without carpetingā¦ or without reclining bucket seats or without intermittent wipers???
I respect your point Dag, but at some point all that technology drives the cost up to where the average working man will no longer be able to support a new car and then what? Heāll keep nursing his old no-longer-safe one.
Letās look at it from another perspective. Would we all be safer if the average working man had cars to choose from that he could afford to buy new, because they were without all the fanncy technology? I believe we would. I believe we have a definite need for easily affordable basic transportation automobiles. And I believe weād all be better off if they existed.
And, admittedly, I have a philosophical bias. I believe the govermentās function is to protect the innocent from predators, not to protect us from ourselves. Let the new safety technology be available to those who want it without mandating it. If I want to use incandescent lightbulbs, I ahould be free to. If I want to pile salt on my burger and fries, I should be free to. If I want to buy just a cheap basic mode of transport, I should be free to. Weāre quickly losing the freedom of choice that my dad and millions of others sacrificed for in WWII.