# Re. Wide Vs Narrow Tires - I rest my case **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 18, 2025, 6:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522 "2025-03-18T06:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/41 "2025-03-19T14:43:53Z")
> [@JoeMario](#): > > Years ago I would contribute to forums like this with definitive assertions on things I believed to be true. It didn’t take long for me to learn how wrong that approach was. I’ve had engineers that worked for me who REFUSED to accept that they might be wrong and refused to listen to any alternative. They didn’t work for me for long. That kind of inflexibility is unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/christhetirewhisperer/32/34798_2.png) [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ChrisTheTireWhisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/42 "2025-03-19T15:00:04Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > No, they resist less. The reaction time is slower because the higher aspect ratio tire is a “soft spring” rather than a stiff one. This does not account for the fact that with a narrower tire, there is less surface to tug / tramline it side to side. > [@Mustangman](#): > > And a 6 inch wide tread tire takes less force to turn that a 12 inch wide tread. Not in any car with wider tires I’ve driven. Unless that 6 inch wide tire has more power steering applied to it. Read this conversation on ‘Automotive Forums’ from some years ago. What was said, about straight-line stability, might surprise you: [Do Some Tires Have Better Straight-line Stability? - Car Forums and Automotive Chat](https://www.automotiveforums.com/t1016640-do_some_tires_have_better_straight_line_stability_.html) ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/43 "2025-03-19T15:19:19Z")
> [@texases](#): > > Car and Driver did a true comparison focused on the effect of aspect ratio. This table refutes the OP’s opinion: > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/2/d/2daaf6415361bee91e15b70dc5d1fd6c78b42f1d.jpeg) > > [Effects of Upsized Wheels and Tires Tested](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15130598/upsized-wheels-tires/) Thank you. Pretty much what I expected except the acceleration runs. I didn’t expect much difference. ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/44 "2025-03-19T15:21:35Z")
> [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > texases: > > I’d take that Golf with either of the two sizes circled in green: > > ![IMG_8907](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/e/a/ea7b4f4297c122d541290b200f9c45b547560153.jpeg) > > Straightline stability matters far more to me than 1/4 mile results, and hair-pin turns Did you even read the table? Acceleration was best with the narrow tires. Oy vey! ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/45 "2025-03-19T15:22:51Z")
Hopefully the right lane. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/christhetirewhisperer/32/34798_2.png) [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ChrisTheTireWhisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/46 "2025-03-19T15:24:24Z")
Of course. I drive German! Chris von KRETPinberg! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/47 "2025-03-19T15:26:13Z")
Where do you see numbers for straight line stability in the Car and Driver table? I can’t find any. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/christhetirewhisperer/32/34798_2.png) [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ChrisTheTireWhisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/48 "2025-03-19T15:28:17Z")
It’s not something that was routinely measured. You just feel it. And frankly I don’t care if straight line stability is not a priority for anyone else here. ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/49 "2025-03-19T15:28:22Z")
Please elaborate on each listed. This will be informative. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/christhetirewhisperer/32/34798_2.png) [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ChrisTheTireWhisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/50 "2025-03-19T15:31:27Z")
> [@johnlump\_191311](#): > > on each listed Each listed what? I’m not sure I’m following you. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/51 "2025-03-19T15:33:18Z")
> [@davesmopar](#): > > This will just be another 100 reply go nowhere thread that changes nobody’s mind (wright or wrong)… 1/2 way there… ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/52 "2025-03-19T15:37:04Z")
> [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > This does not account for the fact that with a narrower tire, there is less surface to tug / tramline it side to side. Yes it does account for that. Suspension design generally has a larger effect on tramlining than tires. > [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > Not in any car with wider tires I’ve driven. Unless that 6 inch wide tire has more power steering applied to it. I’ve driven many more cars than you have. As many as 25 in a single day in competitive evaluations. > [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > Read this conversation on ‘Automotive Forums’ from some years ago Posted by random people with unknown qualifications. ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/53 "2025-03-19T15:39:48Z")
> [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > Dude: > > I’m what you’d call a ‘contrarian’, but with the added quality that I’m not doing it just to be different. My views on everything: > > Narrow tires vs wide > > Standard time vs Daylight Slaving > > CRT (tube) TVs vs flats > > Payphones vs the ones we carry in our pockets > > etc. > > It’s all sincere and genuine. Your opinions on the above. ---
**Author:** ![johnlump\_191311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@johnlump\_191311](https://community.cartalk.com/u/johnlump_191311)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/54 "2025-03-19T15:41:09Z")
Hey I’m working on it. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/christhetirewhisperer/32/34798_2.png) [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ChrisTheTireWhisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/55 "2025-03-19T15:47:22Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > Yes it does account for that. Suspension design > generally has a larger effect on tramlining than tires. Sorry, but you’re in the minority with that statement. We’ll let Capri sort this argument out. ![Google search on wider tires and tramlining](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/a/f/afd820b22f29948ff706690f87d9e6bdcf02e2d5.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/56 "2025-03-19T15:58:39Z")
> [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > Sorry, but you’re in the minority with that statement. All sites that are evaluating an existing car with standard width or wider tires. None of these sites altered the suspension design to minimize or eliminate tramlining. They only alter the alignment settings within the manufacturers allowances to effect a given chosen tire. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/christhetirewhisperer/32/34798_2.png) [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ChrisTheTireWhisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/57 "2025-03-19T16:00:55Z")
I suppose increasing Caster angle could overcome the tramlining experienced with wider wheels and tires. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/58 "2025-03-19T16:16:32Z")
> [@davesmopar](#): > > This will just be another 100 reply go nowhere thread that changes nobody’s mind (wright or wrong)… And it’s not even an oil thread. We’re widening our horizons. 😊. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/59 "2025-03-19T16:59:32Z")
> [@ChrisTheTireWhisperer](#): > > Caster angle could overcome the tramlining My current Mustang has 30mm wider 40 series tires (285/40/18) and 3 inch wider wheels (11 inch) than factory. That required me to move the front wheels outboard with spacers so the tires would not rub on the struts. So added positive scrub radius. I also run - 2.12 degrees camber and added 0.5 degrees caster (factory was 7 degrees!). I used to run a small amount of toe-out (0.03 degrees) but I found the car’s on-center feel and tramlining to be greatly reduced changing to 0.02 degrees toe-in. Just alignment adjustments to compensate for me screwing up Ford’s good front suspension design work. Compare that to my wife’s bone-stock Audi A4 Quattro with its 255/40/18 tires all around. Pretty large tires for a small sedan. This car tracks straighter and handles better than anything I’ve owned before. Power down does not introduce torque steer. Not even on the FWD version we test drove. This was true of the Continental tires it had when we bought it used and the Michelins we have on it now. Why is this car better? It has 4 control arms each with its own ball joint at each front corner. 2 upper ball joints and 2 lower. This gives virtual upper and lower pivot points for the steering. Steering axis inclination can be much more upright than a strut car and positioned anywhere desired for caster trail and scrub radius as well as manage the gains for each. The SAI line can run right through the CV joint so steering does not introduce torque steer. The camber and caster gain can be optimized so that road feedback won’t introduce wander. The car has electric steering too so no telling what kind of damping tricks Audi added to the control algorithm. The point I’m trying to make is; Good suspension design will mitigate the negative effects of wide low profile tires. Alignment can help a lot but the bigger lever is suspension design. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522/60 "2025-03-19T18:01:37Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > I’ve had engineers that worked for me who REFUSED to accept that they might be wrong and refused to listen to any alternative I worked with a few PhDs with PCs that argued their models were correct even when actual test data proved them wrong! 🙄 [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/re-wide-vs-narrow-tires-i-rest-my-case/199522.md?page=4)