# Quick question about ignition timing advance **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Tags:** volkswagen\ **Created:** [October 20, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991 "2022-10-20T01:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/1 "2022-10-20T01:20:11Z")
I recently bought myself an obd reader with a data logger for some live data. I was going through it while idling warm and it showed my timing at -4 degrees. Is this normal? Someone told me it could cause issues. Ive had odd idling issues/low speed issues where I think I feel misfires when I idle (Random Vibrations), I was thinking maf sensor. Might be a dumb question but thanks for the help! ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/2 "2022-10-20T01:30:33Z")
If no cel is on, you are fine. ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/3 "2022-10-20T01:31:36Z")
Weird thing is, when I was misfiring really bad a few weeks ago and went into limp mode, no cel at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/4 "2022-10-20T01:32:18Z")
Are you sure your cel light works? ---
**Author:** ![Tester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/tester/32/15976_2.png) [@Tester](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Tester)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/5 "2022-10-20T01:36:31Z")
A bad crank sensor can cause misfire/rough idling and not cause the CEL to come on. > **[Bad Crankshaft Position Sensor Symptoms & Problems](https://www.1aauto.com/content/articles/bad-or-failing-crankshaft-position-sensor-symptoms)** > > Problems with the crankshaft sensor will often present as problems with engine timing. If you think your sensor has failed, here are some common symptoms of a bad crankshaft sensor that can help you in determining whether or not it has failed. Tester ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/6 "2022-10-20T01:41:22Z")
It totally works, just doesn’t come on for misfires or whatever is going on. ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/7 "2022-10-20T01:44:54Z")
Hey tester, just checked it out, one thing I do notice with my car is with warm starts they feel pretty rough, cold starts are fine, but the entire car vibrates for a sec. Some of those symptoms match what’s been happening, also did notice acceleration isn’t smooth. Id just push the throttle a big and It flies forward, then do it again and drives like usual. ---
**Author:** ![Tester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/tester/32/15976_2.png) [@Tester](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Tester)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/8 "2022-10-20T01:48:31Z")
Heat effects bad crank sensors. Tester ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/9 "2022-10-20T01:50:32Z")
Did a bit more research, seems that uneven acceleration is another symptom and vibrations at idle. Totally going to check that out thanks for the help! ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/10 "2022-10-20T21:13:36Z")
-4 degrees (meaning 4 deg BTDC presumably), that seems a little less than I’d expect in a modern car. My Corolla ignition timing is set at 10 deg BTDC at idle as I recall. My 302 equipped truck is 8. I think my prior VW Rabbit was 10. The service data fro your engine will tell you for certain. Some folks here have mentioned when they watch the timing (using a timing light on the crankshaft pulley), it bounces around at idle. That’s usually normal, done by manufacturer to improve performance or mpg. There’s usually a test mode available mechanics use to turn that jiggling timing off while they set it to the spec. ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/11 "2022-10-21T14:04:44Z")
Yeah it did bounce from -3.5 to -4 but usually just sat at -4. Other people said that they usually sit at 3-5 with their golf’s at idle so obviously something’s up ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/12 "2022-10-21T14:06:49Z")
> [@gnyqyar038\_181857](#): > > Yeah it did bounce from -3.5 to -4 but usually just sat at -4. Other people said that they usually sit at 3-5 with their golf’s at idle so obviously something’s up Yep something’s up alright. You are right in the ball park with the others. ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/13 "2022-10-21T14:32:22Z")
It’s a 7\* difference from other people, I wouldn’t be worried if I was driving but in idle it’s kinda odd ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/14 "2022-10-21T16:07:17Z")
> [@gnyqyar038\_181857](#): > > It’s a 7\* difference from other people, If -4 is before TDC and +4 is after TDC I’d says either they are not mentioning the minus or theirs are the messed up ones. Need to verify if a - is before or after TDC. I don’t recall any automotive engines where base or at idle timing is after TDC. They are probably out there somewhere. Or maybe my memory has finally left me. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/15 "2022-10-21T19:17:14Z")
OP, if you post the make/model/year/engine someone here will likely know the proper idle timing spec. BTW, part of checking timing, besides at idle, is verifying the timing advances significantly with higher rpms. Has that been checked? As mentioned above , the claims you heard that normal idle timing is + 4 degrees, that seems very unlikely. For unexplained RPM variations at idle, the most common cause is not faulty ignition timing. Usually it is some kind of air leak allowing unmetered air into the engine. Misfires however are often an ignition system problem. ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/16 "2022-10-21T21:12:42Z")
Ignition timing is computer controlled, the amount of advance is in the programming. If you don’t like the numbers, return the vehicle to the stock configuration. ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/17 "2022-10-22T00:07:53Z")
I’m gonna have to drive it around to see if timing changes. Seems to be normal, only thing I’m dealing with is rough warm starts where the car kinda shakes when started after it’s warmed up or idles. It stops while driving, I’m thinking leaking fuel injector. ---
**Author:** ![old\_mopar\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6bbea6/32.png) [@old\_mopar\_guy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/old_mopar_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/18 "2022-10-22T14:50:36Z")
I’m thinking IAC (idle air control). ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/19 "2022-10-22T18:58:10Z")
> [@gnyqyar038\_181857](#): > > only thing I’m dealing with is rough warm starts where the car kinda shakes when started after it’s warmed up That sounds like the fuel mixture is too lean at start-up. the reason why it runs better after warmed up is b/c the o2 sensors kick in, which tell the computer to boost the fuel flow a little more than would be predicted by the measured intake airflow. A fuel trim measurement would test this idea. ---
**Author:** ![gnyqyar038\_181857](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@gnyqyar038\_181857](https://community.cartalk.com/u/gnyqyar038_181857)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991/20 "2022-10-22T19:06:07Z")
I have a local vw shop that did tell me once that fuel injectors go bad on most vws. I’ll take it in in about a week and tell them what you said to do. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/quick-question-about-ignition-timing-advance/186991.md?page=2)