# Put ash trays back in cars and trucks! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325 "2021-06-08T15:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/61 "2021-06-17T14:04:10Z")
Also, most all tow vehicles in Europe/UK are diesels, better able to tow. ---
**Author:** ![BoboTheClown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bobotheclown/32/25526_2.png) [@BoboTheClown](https://community.cartalk.com/u/BoboTheClown)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/62 "2021-06-17T14:48:29Z")
> [@texases](#): > > most all tow vehicles in Europe/UK are diesels, better able to tow. What makes a small diesel engine better able to tow than a comparable size gasoline engine? ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/63 "2021-06-17T14:53:29Z")
Diesels have more torque at lower rpms that an equal size gas engine, typically. ---
**Author:** ![weekend-warrior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/weekend-warrior/32/26122_2.png) [@weekend-warrior](https://community.cartalk.com/u/weekend-warrior)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/64 "2021-06-17T14:53:55Z")
a diesel has more low end torque ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/65 "2021-06-17T14:57:35Z")
You can compare the specs on a lot of VW gas and diesel engines here. You can see the torque is higher, at lower rpms, for diesel than gas engines of the same size: [Volkswagen Audi 1.2 TSI/TFSI EA111 Engine Specs, Problems, Reliability, oil, Polo Mk5, Golf Mk6 (motorreviewer.com)](https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=115) ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/66 "2021-06-17T15:21:48Z")
That impala also had a real frame, a decent sized V8, and weighed close to what a 1/2 ton truck did lol. It probably towed better than my GMC truck with a 4.8 liter would! The rear suspension might need some help, though. ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/67 "2021-06-17T16:07:00Z")
> [@BoboTheClown](#): > > What makes a small diesel engine better able to tow than a comparable size gasoline engine? Another: gas engines typically run rich under a heavy load toward full throttle; reducing fuel efficiency. Diesels always run lean (“coal rollers” excepted!). ---
**Author:** ![Renegade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Renegade](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Renegade)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/68 "2021-06-17T16:17:45Z")
Agree with the glamping never could figure out why people want to take every thing with them when they go on vacation. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/69 "2021-06-17T17:39:46Z")
> [@Purebred](#): > > Camping trailers have grown a lot in the last sixty years. There were some very large campers 60 years ago also. Air-Stream made at least a 15’ trailer. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/70 "2021-06-17T18:01:58Z")
> [@BoboTheClown](#): > > What makes a small diesel engine better able to tow than a comparable size gasoline engine? Not to continue this but that was not my experience with my diesel Olds. I remember the first trip with it pulling the camper and hit the hills around Chattanooga, I was down to around 45 mph. 2nd gear was too low and high gear was too high. Flat to the floor and no response. Gas would have been no problem. Of course that was 1981 and maybe times have changed but question a little 4 cyl diesel having much pulling power. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/71 "2021-06-17T18:15:19Z")
That diesel Olds didn’t have a turbo, so very low power. Times have definitely changed, you’d be amazed at what a modern 2.0 L turbo diesel can do. They’re putting 3.0 L diesels in full size pickups. The VW 2.0 TDI diesel puts out 140 hp and 236 ft-lbs of torque The Olds 350 (5.7 L) diesel put out 105 hp and 205 ft-lbs of torque ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/72 "2021-06-17T18:35:38Z")
Turbo charged engines have greater low end torque, whether they are gasoline or diesel fueled. From that link the 2.0 L TSI EA113 engine (gasoline) has up to 258 lb/ft of torque; Power, hp 170-272 hp (125-200 kW)/4,300-6,000 Torque, lb ft 199-258 lb-ft (270-350Nm)/1,700-5,000 The 2.0 L TDI EA188 engine has up to 258 lb-ft of torque; Power, hp 140-170/4000-4200 Torque, lb ft 236-258/1750-2500 The same torque but the gasoline engine has a wider operating range and greater horse power. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/73 "2021-06-17T18:39:18Z")
Those high values on the gas engines are for the high-output performance engines, like the one they put in the Golf R. The ‘regular’ gas engines (the ones you’d get in most tow vehicles) have lower torque values, at higher rpms, than the same sized diesel. The high output gas engine has peak torque at 5000 rpm, a lot higher than the diesel (2500 rpm max). ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/74 "2021-06-17T19:20:42Z")
I don’t think your Olds diesel was turbocharged. That makes all the difference. A diesel with no turbo feels (and is) pretty gutless. I see Texases beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Purebred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/purebred/32/46796_2.png) [@Purebred](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Purebred)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/75 "2021-06-17T19:33:55Z")
True, Luci and Desi had a rather large trailer. Airstream made some trailers smaller than the Scotty(?) Shasta(?) I posted. Airstreams used aircraft type construction, light and aerodynamic. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/76 "2021-06-17T20:44:42Z")
> [@Scrapyard-John](#): > > I don’t think your Olds diesel was turbocharged. Yeah of course it wasn’t turbo charged. Just sayin’ the 3.8 gas with no turbo was a heck of a lot more powerful than the 5.7 diesel with no turbo. Of course now to get as much as they can out of very very small 4 or even 3 cylinder engines, they have to put turbos on them. Like said though a car diesel without a turbo is a different animal than a tractor with a turbo, so saying one is better for towing because it has low end torque, was not my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 12:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/77 "2021-06-18T00:19:10Z")
I looked up the specs for that Olds diesel, and I don’t doubt you. The gas 350’s (5.7) of the late 80’s put out about 100 more hp and 100 more lb/ft of torque. Man, that thing was a boat anchor lol. Maybe that’s the reason you pretty much can’t find a non turbocharged diesel that was manufactured in the last couple of decades (in the US, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325/78 "2021-06-18T02:21:01Z")
> [@Scrapyard-John](#): > > Man, that thing was a boat anchor lol. Heh heh. 480,000 miles dragging a boat anchor. Had it’s impact on me. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/put-ash-trays-back-in-cars-and-trucks/177325.md?page=3)