# Push for a Carbon Tax **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539 "2018-06-20T17:37:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RandomTroll](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/randomtroll/32/12184_2.png) [@RandomTroll](https://community.cartalk.com/u/RandomTroll)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/21 "2018-06-21T17:21:18Z")
> [@shadowfax](#): > > Only true for non-necessities. Some car travel is a necessity, some optional. I’ve heard and read lots of stories about people adjusting their driving and car-buying in response to fuel prices. I pay for sewer as a function of water use. Xeriscaping and saving shower water to flush with cut down on both. ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/22 "2018-06-21T17:24:12Z")
> [@RandomTroll](#): > > saving shower water to flush with cut down on both. Good idea but check your state’s laws. In my state, grey water and black water are not differentiated, and collecting grey water to use for any purpose is illegal. Which is really dumb. At any rate, yes, some car travel is optional, but _most_ is not. Sure, I might drive a few hundred miles a year on vacations but the vast majority of my windshield time is spent going to and from work, or less-so the store (and most of my store trips are necessities too). ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/23 "2018-06-21T17:30:33Z")
> [@](#): > > At any rate, yes, some car travel is optional, but most is not. People with limited income their optional travel is very limited. For me - well over 95% of my traveling is to and from work and going to Grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/24 "2018-06-21T17:44:43Z")
> [@RandomTroll](#): > > When prices go up, people buy less. So I need to repeat myself, again, > [@Mustangman](#): > > We already have that incentive, it is called the “cost of that energy.” Seems that California, the home of the highest gas prices in the country, doesn’t follow that principle; > **[California vehicle sales exceed 2 million for third straight year](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2018/02/22/california-vehicle-sales-exceed-2-million-for-third-straight-year/)** > > For the third straight year, sales for new cars and trucks in California exceeded 2 million and the forecast for 2018 anticipates the number to top 2 million again — but just barely, as the r… Truck sales across the board are up in California despite the increase in the gas tax. ---
**Author:** ![anon86613489](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon86613489](https://community.cartalk.com/u/anon86613489)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/25 "2018-06-21T17:55:49Z")
> [@shadowfax](#): > > If, however, we say “let’s work with the coal industry and convert the workers into solar installers,” then you reduce the dependence on coal while keeping the miners employed _and_ not getting black lung disease. Win-win, and now electric car owners are charging their car off of the solar panel on the roof instead of the coal plant 5 miles away. If Your country really wants it, you’ll soon need more than all the coal workers to fill the jobs within the sector of producing green energi and green products. Here employment within that sector is growing - fast, infact we have to look abroad to find qualified employees. So, yes - it’s a win-win. In DK around 4% of the workforce is working in that sector, expecting to exceed 8% in the short future. I just wish that I could afford that Tesla Model S with that _let’s have some fun button_. ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/26 "2018-06-21T17:59:47Z")
> [@anon86613489](#): > > If Your country really wants it, you’ll soon need more than all the coal workers to fill the jobs within the sector of producing green energi and green products. Indeed. And it should probably be noted that last year, the [Kentucky Coal Museum](https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/science/environment/2017/04/07/kentucky-coal-museum-shifts-solar-power/100137898/) installed solar panels on its roof to become energy-independent. 😉 > [@anon86613489](#): > > I just wish that I could afford that Tesla Model S with that _let’s have some fun button_ . Barring winning the lottery or discovering a recently-deceased rich uncle I didn’t know about, I’ll probably never be able to afford a new one… But you can get a used one for as little as $40,000, and I’m thinking the next time I need a car, it’s gonna be one of those unless something better comes along. When you consider how much you spend on gas every year, a $40,000 car that eliminates the bill at the pump is a fairly compelling economic investment considering I’d spend at least 30 to replace the car if I got a normal one. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/27 "2018-06-21T18:07:18Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > Seems that California, the home of the highest gas prices in the country, doesn’t follow that principle; California has a very good per capita income. A great number of people are far above the average income in CA then almost every other state. In other words - they can afford it. ---
**Author:** ![anon86613489](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon86613489](https://community.cartalk.com/u/anon86613489)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/28 "2018-06-21T18:07:59Z")
> [@shadowfax](#): > > But you can get a used one for as little as $40,000, and I’m thinking the next time I need a car, it’s gonna be one of those unless something better comes along. Did You really have to make me cry? Here, that 40k used Tesla will probably turn into close to 400k before all is said and done with the danish tax system. Other than that, You have a point many should think about. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/29 "2018-06-21T18:12:08Z")
If you want to drop down a little - you can get a new Model 3 for $35k ---
**Author:** ![anon86613489](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon86613489](https://community.cartalk.com/u/anon86613489)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/30 "2018-06-21T18:22:11Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > If you want to drop down a little - you can get a new Model 3 for $35k True, but I can’t even get a danish price on it. They estimate it will be around 1.100.000 dkr. = around 170.000 Usd. I’ll have to eat a heck of a lot of oatmeals to be able to afford that. 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/31 "2018-06-21T18:23:41Z")
What is a truck? Is a Kia Sportage a truck? California streets are likely filling up with crossovers and not F-150s and Ram diesels ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/32 "2018-06-21T18:31:00Z")
> [@anon86613489](#): > > Here, that 40k used Tesla will probably turn into close to 400k before all is said and done with the danish tax system. On the other hand, if you get sick, you won’t go bankrupt, which many if not most of us cannot say. 😉 > [@MikeInNH](#): > > If you want to drop down a little - you can get a new Model 3 for $35k You still have to wait for the $35k ones. In addition to there being a 4-12 month wait for ordering a Model 3 today, they’re not even producing the standard-battery ones yet, which means if you order one today you’re going to have to pay more. Often in the $50,000 range, at which point to me, anyway, a $40,000 Model S with \< 40k miles on it makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![anon86613489](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon86613489](https://community.cartalk.com/u/anon86613489)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/33 "2018-06-21T18:41:01Z")
> [@shadowfax](#): > > On the other hand, if you get sick, you won’t go bankrupt, which many if not most of us cannot say. 😉 I agree, and I like the way it is here, even though I pay an average of 42% in income tax on low income. It helps those in need. > [@shadowfax](#): > > Often in the $50,000 range, at which point to me, anyway, a $40,000 Model S with \< 40k miles on it makes more sense. Absolutely 😃 ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/34 "2018-06-21T18:45:17Z")
> [@anon86613489](#): > > It helps those in need. While here in the USA there seems to a poor attitude by people who can’t imagine they might possibly be one of those in need some day. Back to cars - does Denmark have high tariffs on vehicles imported from all countries or just some? ---
**Author:** ![anon86613489](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@anon86613489](https://community.cartalk.com/u/anon86613489)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/35 "2018-06-21T19:07:27Z")
> [@VOLVO\_V70](#): > > Back to cars - does Denmark have high tariffs on vehicles imported from all countries or just some? Todays offer at the car dealer: Buy 3 - get 1. Say, a car cost 10.000 from factory, then the system taxes the amount from 2k. to 5k with 75% = 2250. The amount over 5k is taxed with 150% = 7500. In total: 10k + 2250 + 7500 equals 19750 + an incremental punishment for fuell economy lower than 16 km/l combined (37,8 mpg). It doesn’t matter where the car comes from. SO FAR. It is not the exact amount figures, but only gives a picture of how it works. Actually, the 150% was untill last year 186%. They lowered it so the people with a lot of money could buy bigger cars, Good for them I guess, but it certainly didn’t help the lower bracket. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/36 "2018-06-21T19:11:46Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > In other words - they can afford it. Not saying they can’t afford it. Just pointing out that the normal concepts of price sensitivity don’t readily apply. Very clearly raising the price did not encourage Californians to buy fuel efficient sedans. Instead they bought increasing numbers of trucks and SUV’s The carbon tax plan is faulty on most every count. It will not achieve the results its supporters desire. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/37 "2018-06-21T20:04:57Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > Not saying they can’t afford it. Just pointing out that the normal concepts of price sensitivity don’t readily apply. Sure they do. Poorer states (Mississippi, Alabama…)..more people living at the poverty level. Gas prices go up - it effects their lives a lot more then it does middle class. Obviously making blanket statements saying it applies to everyone is wrong. But to say that gas prices going up won’t effect people’s driving habits is also wrong. the first people effected will always be lower income. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/38 "2018-06-21T20:06:03Z")
A problem with the carbon tax is that remedies are very expensive. I bought a new Accord and get about 35 mpg, mostly commuting. My old Accord got about 10 mpg less. I drive about 20,000 miles each year, and that is 800 gallons in the old Accord and 571 gallons in the new one. I save a whopping $87 in taxes by buying a new car. Why would anyone pay $26,000 net after trade to buy a car with that small savings? Even the gas savings at $3/gallon is only $687 per year. There is no monetary justification to replace an existing gas hog with a new, fuel efficient vehicle. For an electric, you still pay the carbon tax on your electricity used to charge it. Let’s say the carbon fuel used to charge your EV is one-third of the 800 gallons my old car used. The savings would be $200 per year, still an insignificant amount. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/39 "2018-06-21T20:11:00Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > Why would anyone pay $26,000 net after trade to buy a car with that small savings? You can’t keep them for ever (I know I keep trying). Eventually you have to buy a new(er) one. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539/40 "2018-06-21T20:17:39Z")
Of course, but there is little incentive with this tax to buy a new car early. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/push-for-a-carbon-tax/119539.md?page=3)