My understanding of the advantage of direct injection is that it creates a stratified charge in the combustion chamber, just like a diesel engine does, so it picks up some of the diesel sounds. I have heard that Honda has been experimenting with w variable valve timing that will allow them to have compression ratios high enough so that one of the cam profiles in the V-tec system can actually switch to gas diesel mode for cruising, yielding very high highway mileages.
@same
It’s good to know that the Subaru joint effort has resulted in a 2.0 L motor with 200 hp without turbo charging. Now, if the FRS comes with part time 4 wd, 9 inches of ground clearance, a half ton capacity, count me in !
“Clearly, getting costco gasoline is worth it to you, but not to me.”
“You lose an hour of time per month for barely the cost of a cup of coffee? How is that worth anything?”
I suspect that both of you guys are still in your working years, unlike me.
When I was a working stiff, my time was usually more valuable to me than the saving of a few dollars. Now that I am an old retired guy, saving a few dollars is worth more than my time.
As to “an hour per month for barely the cost of a cup of coffee”, I guess that math is done differently in your neck of the woods than where I live. ;-))
By my calculations, if I spend 10-15 minutes additional time 4 times per month, with a saving of $1.50-1.80 each time, I am saving $6.00-$7.20 for an “investment” of 40-60 minutes. For an old retired guy, that is a good trade-off. That, of course, does not include the 3% cash rebate that I receive from Costco on my gas purchases.
You may wish to differ with my philosophy and my calculations, as is your right.
Nahh, I wouldn’t say I differ with your philosophy, in fact I support it. We’re just at different stages of life. My wife and I both have full-time jobs, 2 small kids, and a nice big house. Full time daycare for my daughter is $900/month, afterschool at the YMCA for my son is $300, plus with all the goings on of life in general there is no way saving $1.80/week is worth more than about 20 seconds. But I look forward to the point (not too far away hopefully) that the minutes of the aren’t quite so precious. I’m told by people older than I am that the day will come when everything isn’t about getting it done right now.
I think the math is quite right on the money, following your calculations. $6.00-$7.20 for 40-60 minutes. An hour for a cup of coffee. My wife averages $35/week at the drive-up coffee window. $7 per day for a cup of coffee.
@ascemaster
Chicken feed ! 
It’s only just begun. The $6 k to $10 k checks I was writing out with regularity with two kids in college made my hand shake. I had to ask my wife write them out one semester as my writing became so illegible from the shaking. Buying cars, once in a while, buying houses, once in a while. Nothing compares to regular outlandish payments then house mortgaging, savings depleting, debt inducing college tuition room and board payments. Oh, in addition we had to buy one a new car to do her clinicals with. The shakes come back just thinking about it. …getting old and only having yourself to finance is a dream come true !
In a few years it’ll be just about impossible to avoid turbos and/or hybrids. The latest ‘performance’ Ford pickup has the Ecoboost V6, faster than the older performance V8. And Ford’s V6 motors are outselling the V8 overall in pickups.
With cars, I do not relate to boring, as some do. I want a car that just runs. So, I can leave my house early in the morning and know that the next day I will be far away, not stuck in a repair facility. I can see some want an exciting car, and I have not the slightest idea what that means. Get a motorcycle?
Seating comfort is important. When we got the Sienna years ago, the seats were not comfortable. So, my wife made a thing, like a foam wedge with a cover and no more pain or discomfort. I like the feet hanging down much better than extended.
When we drive long trips, I do eat on the road. We have been at this for a long time, and eat when we are in light or nonexistent traffic. The middle of Fort Worth or OKC is not a place to eat. My wife fixes the food so it can be taken in hand without even looking down, and I only take a bite when there are no cars, and no places for deer to jump out.
The problem with distracted driving isn’t so much what people are doing, as a lack of common sense about where they are doing it. To eat or talk on a phone in heavy traffic is extremely dangerous. To eat or talk on a phone when there is a quarter mile to the next vehicle is not especially dangerous. I see knucklehead people talking on the phone in very heavy traffic, which really sucks. All, even those who use common sense, are treated the same, as if they are idiots.
You guys who live in extended metropolitan areas probably assume it is the same everywhere. So, we tend to get Federal or State laws which apply to everyone everywhere, when conditions are at times very different.
Though I admit there have been some adjustments. For example, in Western Texas, the speed limits on the Interstate are noticeably higher than the otherwise standard 70.
I retired from a factory. Most retirees, even with reduced income based on lesser retirement checks, still admitted they never had so much money before. We studied on it a lot.
First, without FICA, you gain 7% plus the tax on that 7%, which may make it close to 10% just for FICA savings.
Then, most folks don’t need a late model car all the time, because there is no need for a car which will start at 20 below zero. On those horribly cold days, don’t leave the house until it gets warmer.
Then, there are other savings. For example, when you work every day, recreation has to be fast, because you don’t have much time for it. Weekends, or two weeks at a time, you gotta’ cover a lot of ground fast.
If you are retired, you can saunter across the country, and assuming you are visiting family, if it breaks, you can simply wait until you get if fixed.
Ditto for eating. After working all day, who wants to spend hours cooking. Retirees are likely to pop something in the Crock Pot, and hit the streets then when they get home, there is something waiting.
Where I lived, people did mostly free things, like having a garden in the City gardens in the summer. Until eventually they get bored with it, they could spend hours out there at almost no cost at all, yet really enjoyed life while doing it.
Re: cars, I like something that pleasant and fun to drive, but am perfectly happy with something that’s just comfortable and reliable. I love sports cars, the old British Leyland type, but never could get past the fact that they’re just playthings. Never could spend that much money for a plaything. I suspect I’ve missed a lot of fun due to this tendency.
Excellent observations about retirement. I love it. Work is overrated IMHO.
I like fun to drive cars, but reliability is more important. Have been driving beaters all my life, never lost a job because of it, mostly because I stayed on top of repairs and maintenance. But just the fear of not making it to work or home late night in an unsafe neighborhood, gives you a different perspective. I can still have fun driving an automatic Camry, but to me the Ford Focus with 5 speed manual is more fun. But if the ride gets any sportier/bumpier, then my back starts complaining.
I used to fill up at costco if I was shopping there. Then I realized that on my Credit card, I get 5% back on every station except costco which gets a 1% rebate only.
All of you have given me good info and opinions to think about. I do appreciate it.
I’ve done so much research with CR’s buying guide and half a dozen online sites, looked at reliability ratings, tech specs, checked insurance and depreciation rates, read reviews, etc. and taken note of all your feedback until my head is spinning. And I’ve done a little preliminary test driving. Time now to use all this background to do serious test driving.
Now starts the “joys” of dealing with car salesmen. From past experience I know that only a few will respect my stated purpose of test driving specific models and trim levels/options to find exactly what I want, that I NEVER buy a car the first time I come test driving and that I will not respond kindly to pressure tactics either while there or to repeated phone calls nagging me – and that most will not respect me and instead try to hard sell me into whatever they think they can con me into that day. I even make a point of asking some typical questions about the design of the cars that I already know the answers to just to see whether or not I get a straight answer.
The quickest way to get on the wrong foot with me is to respond to my request to test drive a particular model/trim level by telling me “You won’t like that, here, you’ll want this instead” and then refuse to even let me test drive what I want to rather than what the salesman is determined to foist off on me. Bye! Bye bye.
When I test drive, I prefer to do so alone but if the salesman insists on coming along for the initial test drive I insist that the radio is off and he stays quiet so I can really listen to the car – listen to the engine, the transmission, road and wind noise, for any squeaks and rattles, etc. – and be able to closely pay attention to all aspects of how the car handles and feels. Anything that passes that first test drive I come back to drive again another day and take out on a particular test route I worked out years ago when buying the current car I’m thinking of replacing. It is about 50 miles long and includes local urban streets, interstate highway, two lane highway, and off onto a narrow/steep/crowned/rough/twisting road both uphill and downhill, going to my house to see how the car fits in the garage, and I test load and unload some typical items into and out of the trunk to see how easily I can do that and how well the configuration of the trunk suits my needs, and then stop at the nearby grocery store parking lot to see how easily I can slot the car into and out of a narrow, sloped parking space.
If there is a car that I’m interested in but unsure of which trim level/options/engine, I test drive each of the possibilities. I would never buy a car with different engine, transmission, suspension, seat, wheel size or dashboard/steering wheel control configuration than what I’ve driven and KNOW is exactly what I want. When I have narrowed down my choice to two or three possible cars, I either get a demo to take home and drive for a couple days or rent one like it so that I can drive and use it the way I normally would live with a car long enough to be certain of my final choice. The very last thing I choose is color although I do have some decided preferences.
My methods drive most salesmen nuts. Too bad; it’s my money, and I have to live with what I buy so I’m going to be sure of my choice. Both cars I’ve purchased – the 1987 Olds and the current Chevy – are cars I was totally content with my choice to drive; I only have had some discontent with what turned out to be too many mechanical problems.
I just have to accept and live with the fact I may or may not end up choosing a car that is trouble free in the long term. If I err, then I’ll deal with that when the time comes by replacing it like I’m thinking of now doing early with this one. Lesson learned is that if I start having major problems while under warranty, replace it before warranties run out and it depreciates too greatly. It would be nice, though, to find out what it is like to own a car that only requires attentive proper preventive maintenance rather than endless major repairs.
Sorry about the lengthy post. Guess I’m venting a bit. Just ignore me. I’ll shut up now. 
Marnet
…still reading, still learning
+1 to all of Marnet’s comments, especially:
“The quickest way to get on the wrong foot with me is to respond to my request to test drive a particular model/trim level by telling me “You won’t like that, here, you’ll want this instead” and then refuse to even let me test drive what I want to rather than what the salesman is determined to foist off on me. Bye! Bye bye.”
Circa 1992, I can recall visiting a Mazda showroom, in order to see, sit in, and–hopefully–test drive the “top” model of the 626. On the showroom floor, they had only the mid-level model, which, based on my research, I knew lacked a sunroof, had seats that were not as good, and lacked some other pieces of equipment. So, I asked a salesman if he had the model in which I was interested on the lot somewhere. His response was to point at the mid-level model on the floor and say, “There–it’s exactly the same”. My response was, “No, it isn’t. Can’t you point me toward the other model somewhere on the lot?” Again, he said (incorrectly), “They’re the same.”
Thinking that I must be wrong, I examined that car and found that it was certainly not “the same” as the model in which I was interested, but I figured that as long as I had made the trip to that showroom, I might as well take a test drive in whatever they had available. It might ride a bit differently, and the seats wouldn’t be equivalent, but at least I could get an idea about the 626’s acceleration and handling.
So, I again approached the same salesman and asked if I could take a 626 out for a test drive. His response was to shout, "This is Saturday! You can’t take a test drive on a Saturday!
I responded by saying, “And, obviously I’m not buying a car from you!”, as I turned and exited that place.
Then, we have the bad information that car salesmen spout regarding the cars that they are selling. The veterans of this forum probably recall my brother’s experience regarding a salesman’s explanation of “traction control”, so I won’t repeat it here unless someone wants me to.
Suffice it to say that all too many car salesmen know very little about what they are selling, and that they do not know how to treat customers–of either gender–with respect.
Your spouse and your best friend (maybe) are the only two people in this world who are interested in you buying a car that’s right for you. ( figuratively) Everyone else has an agenda to either line their own pocket book or make you a " misery loves company" recommendation. You’re on your own in car negotiations and dealers and manufacturers are the worse source for reliable information about their products when buying ( not servicing ) a car. History speaks volumes. If there is little history to go on, stay clear. I guess this is a way of saying, “be a little behind the times when buying.” I get nervous when I hear the word “new” when it comes time to discribe something critical about the component in a car. So, if we are talking about motors and transmissions in cars in 2014, I would only consider those that had been there in 2013,2012,2011…
When you buy a new tractor for example, it was a real big deal when they finally went to coil springs in the seats.
When we recently bought a new car, it was between a make with a CVT in a better performing car and a lesser one whose basic design, power plant and transmission had not changed since 2009 except for the addition of Bluetooth and a USB port. We chose the older design. Even if it does look like the M577 APC vehicle in Aliens 2. Stodgy comes to mind and five or even more years of respectable performance seems about right.
@VDCDriver Wearing plaid jackets and chewing on toothpicks certainly does not result in detailed car knowledge.
I had a similar experience at a Pontiac dealership. Asked the lady salesperson about the list price of a Bonneville with certain options. She would be able to do that in about 5 minutes from the sales catalogue.
Instead she pointed at a models on the floor (which did not have what I needed) and said “This one is $xxxx.” I told her I was interested in a different model and what price. Then she got angry at me, playing the sexist bit, when I suggested that all she had to do was look it up in the book, which she refused to do.
Nowadays we can do this on line. The long and the short was that I left. Returning a month later I saw she was no longer there.
A year later I went to a car show and visited the GM booth. I was interested in the availability of a split front seat in an Olds sedan, but not the top line. The guys there were GM (not dealer) employees, and refused to answer any questions, referring me to visit the dealer.
A little way over was the Honda booth. All Accords have bucket seats of course. The guy in the booth was a dealer rep, and talking about Olds models with bucket seats, he clearly explained that the bottom line Olds only came with a bench seat, the top line were all buckets (really a split front seat) and the middle line had optional divided front seats. He not only knew his cars but the competition’s as well.
At that time I started wondering about the future of GM, but our company only bought GMs, so I ended up with a loaded Caprice with the F-41 handling package and Positraction.
@dagosa – My thinking is very much like yours; buy the engine and transmission with a track record. The slight difference of a couple miles per gallon performance is quite subject to variations anyway depending on driving habits, what replacement tires the owner buys when the factory ones wear out, climate, etc.
@VDCdriver and Docnick – Glad to know I’m not just being a “difficult female” with my car shopping approach. I do my best to be up front with car sales people, that I’m very deliberate, detailed and taking my time. I don’t think it unreasonable to expect some respect in return.
I went to the annual car show here a couple months ago. The ONLY car maker’s reps who actually knew the specs and ratings of their vehicles was Suburu. Not only did the reps have answers to all my questions, they knew the comparable info about all the makes and models which directly compete with Suburu models. When I got to the Nissan vehicles displayed next to the Suburus, the rep there tried to tell me I didn’t need to waste my time with all that mechanical nonsense, that Nissan had the best reputation and that all I needed to do was sit in a Nissan, discover it is the most comfortable and best looking car and buy that for its looks and nameplate. Dear, dear me, how dreadful of me not to want the prettiest car on the lot regardless of any other consideration.
I also frustrate car sales because I refuse to talk car financing. Before I ever start actual car shopping I have my money arranged. But, of course, most salesman trot out the finance manager who attempts to coerce me into financing. I’m polite but firm that the only money under discussion is the final bottom line price to take title to the car. Note, not to drive the car off the lot but to take physical possession of the car title properly made out in my name with me personally checking the VIN on the title against the car. In the past, I’ve walked away from two deals over that very issue. One time, sales tried to float a price at me and I said I wasn’t buying that day, was still in the early phase of shopping. A minute later he came back with the sales manager who waved a contract at me and tried to get me to initial it. Nope. I did glance at it and saw the price of the car had magically gone up $1,000 and added on to that was $199 for pinstripes and $900 for “transport”. I laughed and said the destination fee is already the transport fee, that no pinstripes are worth no more than perhaps $20 maximum and that increasing the price along with more bogus add ons certainly wasn’t my idea of how to entice a buyer. The manager kept sputtering that the pinstripes were warrantied. I stood up, said good day to you gentlemen and walked out the door.
“Your spouse and your best friend (maybe) are the only two people in this world who are interested in you buying a car that’s right for you.”
LOL Man, I wish MY spouse had been that way!
In '93 I almost bought a fully loaded brand new 929. That car was really gorgeous. And I could very easily afford it. My spouse… well, let’s just say she didn’t agree. We bought a Saturn instead.
Same…I didn’t say my spouse agreed with what I wanted ;(. Here is a list of vehicles I have wanted that she has nixed.
Firebird ( too small for kids)
Used police Crown Vic ( too big for kids, good grief)
SAAB Sonnet ( too strange looking)
Triumph TR3 ( too unreliable)
Used Toyota Celica ( too white). ? Didn’t like white cars.
Mazda Miata ( too low)
Ford Mustange ( too fast, but still working on it)
Motorcycle Norton 750 (too unsafe, would not marry me as long as I had it )
Cars she insisted on for me/ us
Truck, any truck, my choice, any time, any type any year, didn’t care, she wouldn’t have to ride in it.
4Runner ( but don’t leave any dirt or golf equipment in case she needed it for my friends on spur of the moment trips)
Everything else was her’s to buy as she wanted or we agreed on.
But, I can’t complain what so ever. I got to buy any sailboat I wanted, a plethora of motor boats and two tractors with heated cabs and a bunch or attachments .
By in large, she has watched out for my purchases well and steered me to practicality.
We both agreed before we were married, that both would have a voice in what the other wanted for a car. The only exception would be, if one was really adamant and insisted upon a purchase.then the other would agree. Basic rules…they always worked. Been married 46 years.
I guess I’m not alone than. {
Sincere congratulations on your enduring marriage. I tip my hat to you.
The failure of mine was nobody’s fault, we just both married for the wrong reasons. The biggest decision in my life and I blew it!
But man, I’d still like to have that 929. Two-tone crème colored, with leather and woodgrain everywhere. And I loved the look of it. I think it would still look good even next to today’s designs.
Cars may be a sign. But, be kind and don’t be hard on yourself. Any good marriage in retrospect could have ended at one time or another for a variety of reasons. Some times, luck plays a roll getting through the tough spots. It has with mine and several good friends. Some lasted, some didn’t and much of it was timing and luck. But, arguing about cars just wasn’t worth it. Had to bite my tongue many times. But, my spouse has to bite hers too.
It may be a blessing in disguise with the 929.
A much newer one is well worth the wait. I loved the looks of those cars in some years. They looked just like a 4 door classic Jag. The best of both worlds !
@dagosa My wife likes cars that are fun to drive, easy to park, and are RED!! When the time came to replace the Nissan Sentra, we looked at the Hyundai Accent hatchback, Kia Forte hatchback , Ford Fiesta hatchback, Mazda 2, Mazda3, and Hyundai Elantra hatch back. She spends a lot of time in the mountains and the hatchback holds all the gear, and we don’t need a ski rack.
My wife hates trucks of any kind, large passenger cars, thinks minivans are too combersome to drive and park, and does not yearn for a luxury car. She would not drive the Caprice with the F41 handling package (my company car) even though it was red.
So we ended up with the Mazda Sport hatchback in “Velocity Red” with the standard engine, auto, and power everything. It helped that we had rented a Mazda3 on a 2 week holiday and she realy enjoyed driving it.
It helps that she has practical friends, who own Mazdas, Subaru Imprezas & Foresters, and other practical transportation.
Thanks for the moral support. I’m long-since healed, and the past cannot be relived.
Mazda, as it turns out, did have a problem with that version of their V6, the lifters often collapsed. But man, that car was sweet to drive.