I think the cupholder comment is a good point about how things not mechanical have a great influence on how happy we are with cars. Though I still don’t understand why we need to eat or drink in our cars on a regular basis.
I suggested talking to a dealer tech because those of us in the aftermarket don’t usually see cars for anything other than oil changes and routine maintenance for the first few years. Any repair work or recalls are handled by the dealers. And in general, aftermarket training lags several years behind dealership training when it comes to the latest technology. The Ford EcoBoost may be the greatest thing ever or it may be a pile of junk. Being in the aftermarket, I don’t really have enough experience with them to tell you one way or another yet. But a dealer tech may. A dealer tech may also be able to speak to things like fit and finish of interior and accessories.
The dealership techs are not going to say negative things when you are at the place that pays them. I have trouble with your statement that all sun roofs leak. Our 2004 KIA works just fine and does not leak nor did the OLDS 88 we had for 6 years. I feel that your list might have left some quite good cars off the list, besides new car warranties should give you peace of mind.
@marnet “No techs seem to want to answer about the life of hybrid batteries.”
They last until they need to be replaced. I don’t think it’s that no one wants to answer your question, I think they can’t. In general they are lasting longer than anyone anticipated. I don’t work on very many Priuses (maybe 8-10), but none of my regulars have had to replace or service their batteries, a couple of them are over 200,000 miles now. And depending on driving habits, you may also see savings in other areas. I see one Prius that thanks to regen braking has over 200,000 on original brakes. As for the Fusions, I have yet to talk to someone who bought one that wasn’t happy with it.
I have seen one or two “unanticipated” aspects of hybrids, like loss of fuel economy due to an aging catalytic converter or being unhappy with tire traction with the LRR tires.
To @Marnet - how many miles per year are you driving? Only go with a hybrid if you are doing significant miles per year -15K and up. You will not get significant fuel savings to override the higher initial cost of a hybrid.
I think I’d really take a good hard look at the Chevy Impala. Nice looking, comfortable, big trunk, and great if you ever do take a longer trip. The Impala has good mpg for a fairly large car and uses technology without much fancy untried stuff. It might take a depreciation hit, but that really is only a concern if you expect to trade the car in every 2 or 3 years.
In the Camry I like the 6 cylinder motor - just bulletproof. In the Accord I’d pass on the CVT tranny for a few more years until they get the bugs out, Accord with a 6 and 6 speed tranny is a hoot to drive.
Still check out the Impala - it might be the dark horse in your list.
For the Camry, I’d look hard at the SE model with the 4. Edmunds had one long-term, and that bunch of car nuts actually like it pretty well. The Camry 6 is a GREAT motor, gets decent mpgs, very smooth.
As for transmissions, the CVT is the only thing keeping the Accord 4 Sport from the top of my list. Too bad it doesn’t have a 6-speed regular automatic. Don’t write off the Fusion, it’s 6-speed isn’t the dual-clutch type that’s been the source of problems on smaller Fords (Fiesta and Focus).
The Impala is certainly worth a look, but it’s the next size up, the Malibu would be direct competition to the other cars you list.
I’ve read LOTS of good reviews of the Mazda 6, I’d certainly take a look.
Finally, regarding hybrids, I bought one, the MKZ (same basic car as the Fusion). Running great after 3 years. Battery life is not usually an issue, but of course there will be some small % that fail. Fuel freshness is not an issue, the motor is running much of the time. But the payoff on a hybrid requires a fair amount of driving. I look at it as an option that I enjoy having, and that eventually will pay off.
I used to be wary of “new technology”. However, a lot of my fear goes back to the 1950s. The Buick V-8 engine, introduced in 1953, had an oil consumption problem. Apparently, the rings didn’t seat as quickly as the owners would like and the break-in period was really long. The first 1955 Chevrolet V-8 engines and the 1955 Pontiac engines had some problems with oil use. The TurboGlide transmission Chevrolet introduced in 1957 had a terrible reliability record (the PowerGlide was fine by this point in time). The newly introduced overhead valve V-8 in the 1954 Ford had its problems.
However, sticking with the old technology as I did for a long time didn’t mean that a vehicle won’t have problems. I shied away from automatic transmissions, but I had a snap ring break in the manual transmission of my 1965 Rambler that was almost new when I bought it. I stayed away from power windows because I thought they might be troublesome. I had to take my aunt’s 1948 Buick to the dealer because when she would put the window up, it would gradually slide down. The windows in that Buick worked on a hydraulic system and the seals on the hydraulic cylinder were leaking. However, I have never had problems with the power windows on any of the cars I have owned, but I did have to go to the “HELP” section of the auto parts store to get new window crank handles for my 1971 Maverick and my 1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass. The parts were cheap and easy to replace, but the original pot handle cranks broke.
I think manufacturers test the technology better before they put the vehicles into production. For example, I have a friend who bought a new Toyota Prius back in 2005 and has 130,000 miles on the car and has had no problems. I wish Toyota had seen fit to put a hybrid system in its minivans. I need a minivan to transport musicians and their instruments, but I also use the minivan in short trips around town. I have to buy a vehicle that fits my needs and I don’t worry about the reliability record. I haven’t been disappointed.
@asemaster – I like your idea about talking to the service department about what warranty items are typical. If I’m careful to phrase it as asking for comparison of the various models and trim levels of those models in a dealership’s line up I suspect I can get some helpful answers.
@VOLVO V70 – How, please, do you maintain/use your sunroof so it doesn’t leak? Everyone I’ve ever known with a sunroof in their car has had it start leaking within two to three years. I’ve found all sorts of internet info on REPAIRING a leaking sunroof but nothing about how to use and maintain it so it doesn’t start leaking in the first place! So, I truly am interested in just what you do and do not do to keep yours leak free.
@asemaster – From what you are telling me, I will do well to talk with both my regular independent mechanic shop as well as dealership service departments so I get both the warranty service and after market service perspectives. Thank you for the advice.
@Docnick – Is the twin clutch model transmission you mention an automatic? I don’t try to drive a manual transmission due to my arthritis. Also, although I’m already leery of turbo engines, in what way are they troublesome from what you know?
@UncleTurbo – I’m a low mileage driver per year, only about 7,500 most years although sometimes I go upwards of 10,000. I already did the math and know that a hybrid won’t pay for itself unless/until both the hybrid purchase price (and accompanying higher taxes!) decreases and/or gas prices about from current levels. Although I do look at mpg ratings, I am willing within reason to live with lower mpg to get better comfort. I did drive the Impala in both 4 cyl and 6 cyl versions as well as the Malibu and Cruze recently when I was at the dealership to ask something about my current Impala. The Cruze, although with a reasonable ride for a compact car, was just too small and rough riding. Besides, research shows it already has a recall for bad axles as well as the new halt in sales for unspecified reasons. The Malibu is about right sized but has a bit rougher ride and less stable handling than I’m used to as well as having a stop/start engine of which I’m leery of being a first years’ design/production adopter. The Impala has a sweet ride, very comfy. The 4 cyl seems overworked for that much weight car but the 6 cyl worked smoothly and effortlessly. Only reason I’m leery about the Impala is the wretched problem prone history of the 2007 Impala I currently have and am weary of having major components fail extremely early as well as lots of annoying minor problems in endless array.
Thank you everyone. You are giving me great feedback and I do appreciate it.
@texases – I’ll give the 4 cyl and 6 cyl Camry’s a try. I like knowing that several of you have mentioned the 6 cyl as being particularly good. That’s the kind of info I’m looking for. Thank you.
@Triedaq – I admit to being leery of buying the first year’s redesign of anything. That makes car shopping a challenge at present because almost all the cars have some sort of new design to either engine, transmission or electronics this year. I’d feel more comfortable if they were all headed pretty much in the same design direction but, like I said earlier new designs seem all over the board just waiting to see which ones sell and which ones last well long term. That’s why I’d rather spend my limited money on known reliable technology.
Marnet, the difference between “fuel injection” and “direct injection” is only in where they spray. “Direct injection” is fuel injection that sprays directly into the combustion chamber rather than behind the intake valve (in the olden days it sprayed into the throttle body). It’s a strictly technical improvement that eliminates a few of the elements that interfere with a clean, fine spray, namely valves and intake port turbulence. Ignore it in your selection criteria. The only thing that matters is how the car drives.
@Marnet–I remember hearing a discussion as to whether a refrigerator should have a sealed compressor (motor and compressor hermetically sealed as one unit) or a separate motor with a belt driving the compressor. A friend of ours bought a new Norge refrigerator right after WW II and it had three compressor replacements within its first year (I think it was under warranty). My parents had a Sears Coldspot refrigerator where the motor and compressor were separate. The motor burned out after 10 years, but it was relatively inexpensive to have the motor rewound to put the refrigerator back in service. On the other hand, my brother has a GE refrigerator that he keeps as a backup for his apartment buildings that has the original sealed compressor and that refrigerator he found was made in 1940.
Yes, there can be bugs in new technology whether it is an automobile or other mechanical device. There are no guarantees on longevity. However, I think at the present time auto manufacturers go to great lengths to try to wring the bugs out before a vehicle is put into production. I think about the three speed Torqueflyte automatic transmission that Chrysler corporation introduced as an option in its 1957 models. It was far superior to the PowerFlyte transmission Chrysler introduced in 1953 and that TorqueFlyte was bullet proof. I guess “you pays your money and takes your chances”.
I believe Ford used to license the Toyota hybrid technology. I don’t know if this is still true
I can only speak of Civic Hybrid versus Prius battery life
The Civic hybrid batteries are absolutely horrendous. Very short battery life. Honda itself has gotten into some hot water about this, and the fuel economy, which is far less than advertised.
They had to make software changes to use the ICE more often, in order to prolong battery life. A woman won a lawsuit against Honda, in small claims court, about the fuel economy.
Toyota did a much better job with their Prius batteries. There are apparently hundreds or thousands of Prius vehicles with 10 year old original batteries still driving, and there’s no problem. As far as I know, the Civic Hybrid batteries fail miserably far earlier.
Perhaps the Accord hybrid batteries are more reliable, but I wouldn’t count on it. If the same guys that designed the quite problematic Civic Hybrid designed the Accord Hybrid, I wouldn’t expect better reliability.
I know this sounds pessimistic. And it is a mix of fact and opinions . . .
“Though I still don’t understand why we need to eat or drink in our cars on a regular basis”
Spoken like a true over fifty male. Unfortunately, the young crowd and those with out “old guy issues” are a big buying segment need their morning latte.
If you like the size of the Impala, maybe you should look at the Toyota Avalon and Hyundai Azera. The Avalon will cost a bit more, but is a very well done full size sedan. The Azera is typical Hyundai: lots of extra features at a attractive price. Hyundai and Toyota have good reputations for reliability.
