# Programmer chips and modules for fuel economy and/or power - good idea or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 19, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090 "2014-05-19T19:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/21 "2014-05-20T23:17:31Z")
> But data is software, in the sense that's certainly not hardware. Data can be considered software. That’s like saying the document you created using the PROGRAM ( Microsoft Word) is also a program. Yes it’s NOT hardware…Yes they both are stored in system memory. But the DATA in the document you just created WITH SOFTWARE (aka WORD) is NOT software. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/22 "2014-05-21T00:03:37Z")
Lighten up @MikeInNH, Yeah, a “tune” downloads a parameter file. Ok. To most people, that is software. Maybe not in the strictest sense but that is the term most use. Is it more correct to define the ECU control program as “firmware” and the parameter file as “software”? ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/23 "2014-05-21T00:39:04Z")
> To most people, that is software. That doesn’t make it correct. But YOU’RE the one who said you need a programmer to make the changes in the parameters…and that is NOT correct. You do NOT need a programmer. You may have to run software, but you don’t need to be a programmer to run software. Firmware is just software that’s burned in the chip. > Is it more correct to define the ECU control program as "firmware" and the parameter file as "software"? The parameter file is just data. Nothing more. The program/software/firmware on the ROM/PROM/FPROM is the program that is run by the ECU. ---
**Author:** ![FoDaddy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/fodaddy/32/717_2.png) [@FoDaddy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/FoDaddy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/24 "2014-05-21T01:51:04Z")
_That’s like saying the document you created using the PROGRAM ( Microsoft Word) is also a program. Yes it’s NOT hardware…Yes they both are stored in system memory. But the DATA in the document you just created WITH SOFTWARE (aka WORD) is NOT software._ You can write HTML in Word. And you can write a computer program in Word (BASIC), see where I was going with the chicken/egg thing? ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/25 "2014-05-21T02:00:16Z")
The english code you write is NOT the program. It doesn’t become the program until it’s passed through a Compiler or interpreter and then a linker of some sort. But in any case that has NOTHING to do with the discussion. Mustang - made the statement that you need a programmer to make changes to the chip. That is not true. The ONLY changes an aftermarket company can make is with the parameter table. The parameter table (which this discussion has been about) is the DATA that is used by the software. It is NOT software. The HTML code or Basic code you write - after going through a compiler or interpreter will become the program…There isn’t a compiler or interpreter in the world that’ll turn the parameter data into a program. > **[The Difference between the Program Files and Data Files](http://ittekno.blogspot.com/2010/01/difference-between-program-files-and.html)** > > Sometimes we are confused between the program files and data files, let's explore the meaning of the term. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/26 "2014-05-21T03:55:06Z")
There’s likely a variety of ways to change how the ECM manages the engine. Varies car to car. The problem is that no matter how it is done, you don’t know what all it will affect, or how to test for any adverse repercussions. There are ECM “tuning-for-performance” books on this topic available, but it is probably better to relegate this activity to experimentation on older cars. Cars that you don’t mind if they overheat and the head gasket blows, an exhaust valve gets burned to a crisp, or a piston shatters. ---
**Author:** ![insightful](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/insightful/32/2732_2.png) [@insightful](https://community.cartalk.com/u/insightful)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 8:47am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/27 "2014-05-21T08:47:24Z")
I took the “programmer” which changes the parameters to be the “tuner” device that plugs in, not the person doing the programming. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/28 "2014-05-21T14:40:41Z")
> I took the "programmer" which changes the parameters to be the "tuner" device that plugs in, not the person doing the programming. After re-reading the posts…I can see that. If you call the device that creates the chip a programmer…then yes it would be correct. I got confused with the word “They”…meaning a person. I would have used the word “It”…for an object. I’ve seen those devices…never heard it referred as a programmer. We actually have one at work. Not used for cars…but we flash EPROMS with our propitiatory software that goes into the systems we make. We call them burners…not programmers. Would be kind of insulting to the programmers that work for me. ---
**Author:** ![meanjoe75fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meanjoe75fan/32/552_2.png) [@meanjoe75fan](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meanjoe75fan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/29 "2014-05-22T04:34:22Z")
Gee, MikeinNH, if your “programmers” object to that term being applied to an inanimate object, you could always start calling your workers “computers” (one who compiles, tabulates or manipulates data). Then, if they object to THAT, threaten to demote them to “calculators!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090/30 "2014-05-22T15:52:22Z")
> Gee, MikeinNH, if your "programmers" object to that term being applied to an inanimate object, you could always start calling your workers "computers" Actually the word “Computer” is a very old word. Been in the English language for a few hundred years. Back before it was a noun…it meant “Someone who computes”. What we call Accountants today. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/programmer-chips-and-modules-for-fuel-economy-and-or-power-good-idea-or-not/85090.md?page=1)