# Photo Red Light violation (6 photos and 12-second video) **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046 "2014-01-08T21:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Robert-Gift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/robert-gift/32/356_2.png) [@Robert-Gift](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Robert-Gift)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/61 "2019-09-29T22:16:36Z")
> [@meanjoe75fan](#): > > It isn’t enough that they offer the possibility of defense hinged upon denial of being the driver: they should be forced to determine identity up front. You also shouldn’t have to perjure yourself to get the prosecution to meet the burden of proving it was you: they should have to prove it was you, regardless. Todayvith **facial recognition technology** , will the Photo Enforcement Unit be able to prove who was driving? Told myvife that we should register _the vehicle she drives_ in my name and _myehicle in her name_ . Then mail the driver license photo revealing thathe registered owner is not the one pictured in the violation photo. ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/62 "2019-09-29T22:54:07Z")
deleted 😈 ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/63 "2019-09-29T22:54:50Z")
Welcome back! 🎆🚀👏 ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/64 "2019-09-29T23:47:57Z")
The car with the license plate gets the ticket, not the driver necessarily. If it’s registered to you, then you pay the ticket. I’ve had this happen when my daughter got a ticket. The car is registered in my name and she is the regular driver. Where I live, no points are assessed, just a fine. That’s because they can’t determine who the driver was. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/65 "2019-09-30T00:03:22Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > The car with the license plate gets the ticket, not the driver Nope, that’s why they were thrown out in Minnesota and not allowed anymore. Interestingly @Whitey and I pretty much agreed on this issue 6 years ago. I think all the amendments are important though and these days the 1st seems to be in danger. ---
**Author:** ![Robert-Gift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/robert-gift/32/356_2.png) [@Robert-Gift](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Robert-Gift)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/66 "2019-09-30T00:11:26Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > The car with the license plate gets the ticket, not the driver necessarily. If it’s registered to you, then you pay the ticket. I’ve had this happen when my daughter got a ticket. The car is registered in my name and she is the regular driver. Where I live, no points are assessed, just a fine. That’s because they can’t determine who the driver was. In Denver, if the registered owner claims not to be the driver, _ **"you must include a clear, legible copy of your driver’s license** and **sign the affidavit below** in the NOTICE OF VIOLATION."_ The Photo Enforcement Unit compares the images. If no match, the citation is “cancelled”. _ **“You may identify the driver in the spaces below; however, this is optional.”** _ This allows the known driver to not be revealed! ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/68 "2019-09-30T02:45:59Z")
> [@Whitey](#): > > Unless the person or entity doing the censoring is the government or a government contractor, the First Amendment doesn’t apply. Yeah I’ve read it and I wasn’t implying that Car Talk could not censor what is written here. Interesting that most censorship has been by other members which might mean something. While not car related, California recently changed the terminology that is to be used with certain folks violating the law. Then more recently, NYC has also dictated what terminology may be used and indicated substantial fines for violators. This is just a couple recent instances of “government” dictating speech. At any rate, doesn’t matter if we agree or not. One person’s hate speech may be another’s simple statement of fact or observation. If I remember correctly without making a big deal out of it again, what you considered spewing hate was simply a statement that the UK arrested someone for using the wrong name. Of course they are not subject to our constitution, Hang loose as they say and blue skies. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/69 "2019-09-30T13:30:54Z")
NH has not allowed Red-Light camera’s - although we could really use them. But NY has them. And from what I understand from relatives in NY…the ticket goes to the vehicle. The owner of the vehicle needs to show they weren’t driving the vehicle (i.e. give up the name of the person who is). If not then the owner pays the ticket. Some people were trying to get out of tickets this way. The camera would clearly show a small petite woman driving the car, but the car belonged to a 300lb man. If the man refused to say who the driver was…then he had to pay the ticket and accrue the points on his license. ---
**Author:** ![Cavell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cavell/32/43396_2.png) [@Cavell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cavell)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/70 "2019-09-30T13:51:05Z")
![r](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/6/9/69fbcee788743dc561ac40884cd3403530de779a.jpeg) i was where truck is and an oncoming car turned in front of me. never had abs kick in on dry pavement before. i missed her by 20ft? she had her hand raised and covered her face. driving with eyes shut? you can barely see beyond the truck that the road has a slight dip as it disappears in the distance. i think it is a good place for a stop sign at least. truck is in left turn lane. there are no arrows. i was to the right of truck going north ---
**Author:** ![Robert-Gift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/robert-gift/32/356_2.png) [@Robert-Gift](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Robert-Gift)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/71 "2019-09-30T13:52:14Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > … from relatives in NY…the ticket goes to the vehicle. The owner of the vehicle needs to show they weren’t driving the vehicle (i.e. give up the name of the person who is). If not then the owner pays the ticket. Some people were trying to get out of tickets this way. The camera would clearly show a small petite woman driving the car, but the car belonged to a 300lb man. If the man refused to say who the driver was…then he had to pay the ticket and accrue the points on his license. Is that whathe citation indicates? Or what people claim? Here, if the registered owner is nothe driver and does not wanto pay the fine (no Points can be assessed), the citation instructs: _ **"you must include a clear, legible copy of your driver’s license** and **sign the affidavit below** in the NOTICE OF VIOLATION."_ The Photo Enforcement Unit compares the images. If no match, the citation is “cancelled”. _ **“You may identify the driver in the spaces below; however, this is optional.”** _ This allows the known driver to **not be revealed**! ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/72 "2019-09-30T14:01:04Z")
> [@Robert\_Gift](#): > > Many Russian drivers seem less competent. Many act as though they have no understanding of physics or right of way. You have clearly not driven in Minnesota. 😉 My state will out-stupid Russian drivers any day of the week. My problem with red light cameras is that they’re dumb. If a cop sees me stop at a red light with my bumper accidentally 2 inches over the stop line, he won’t do anything because I’m not doing anything wrong. The red light camera will say I ran the light. I have the same problem with speed cameras. Radar is not always accurate. A speed camera in Cardiff ticketed a scooter rider for doing 46 in a 30. He was actually going 18. The car next to him was going 46, but the camera dinged the wrong vehicle. Took him months of court time to get out from under being falsely accused. Of course, the main problem with all of these scams is that they are exactly that - scams. Private companies with a financial motivation to get you a citation are being allowed to facilitate issuing citations. There should be a hard wall between the justice system and a profit motive. It _always_ leads to abuses. The red light camera company gets the timing of the yellow light reduced so that more people will run the red. The private prison works to increase recidivism and extend sentences so that they make more money by having more prisoners. The police station works to “find suspicious money” and confiscate it so that they can [take vacations and buy party equipment](https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/cops-in-texas-seize-millions-by-policing-for-profit/#3d0853441a81) with the money they stole through “civil asset forfeiture.” All the other valid arguments against traffic cameras aside, the profit motive alone should be enough to see them outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/73 "2019-09-30T14:14:14Z")
Here in Wash. DC “The vehicle owner is responsible for all automated enforcement tickets issued to the vehicle, regardless of who was operating the vehicle at the time of the violation.” [https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/automated-red-light-enforcement-faqs](https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/automated-red-light-enforcement-faqs) > [@shadowfax](#): > > If a cop sees me stop at a red light with my bumper accidentally 2 inches over the stop line, he won’t do anything because I’m not doing anything wrong. The red light camera will say I ran the light. > [@shadowfax](#): > > A speed camera in Cardiff ticketed a scooter rider for doing 46 in a 30. He was actually going 18. In DC they include two photographs with the mailed citation. The second photo taken half a second or so after the first. For a speed photos a ruler is painted on the pavement to show how far the vehicle moved in the given time, thus a visual measure of speed. For red light tickets the first photo shows the vehicle in the crosswalk, the second shows the vehicle in the middle of the intersection. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/74 "2019-09-30T15:54:21Z")
> [@Robert\_Gift](#): > > Here, if the registered owner is nothe driver and does not wanto pay the fine (no Points can be assessed), the citation instructs: _ **"you must include a clear, legible copy of your driver’s license** and **sign the affidavit below** in the NOTICE OF VIOLATION."_ Maybe where you live…but I specifically said NY… > **[How Much Is A Red Light Ticket In NY?](https://nytrafficticket.com/resources/red-light-camera-tickets/)** > > While our firm does NOT handle red light camera tickets, we included this section as a helpful guide. Learn more about red light camera tickets here. ---
**Author:** ![RichardJR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a87d85/32.png) [@RichardJR](https://community.cartalk.com/u/RichardJR)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/75 "2019-09-30T21:00:48Z")
If you slide on ice or snowy beyond the stop line, you were going too fast for the road conditions. Not saying I never do that though. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/76 "2019-09-30T23:37:26Z")
> [@RichardJR](#): > > If you slide on ice or snowy beyond the stop line, you were going too fast for the road conditions. You mean like 2 mph with ABS pumping away like crazy? Welcome to Minnesota where the driver is always wrong. ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/77 "2019-10-01T01:03:03Z")
> [@bing](#): > > Also whether out in the open or in your own yard, you DO have a presumption of privacy. There is a limit to this. The constitution guarantees freedom from unreasonable searches an seizures which something like asking for documents would be a violation. A camera at an intersection is NOT the same thing. If you think it is, then what next, cops won’t be allowed to look at you when you are out in public. If you rob a bank, the cops won’t be able to observe you, stop you or arrest you. How about rape or murder. If the cops investigate and ask you questions, are they violating your rights? Cameras are not violating your right to privacy. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/78 "2019-10-01T02:08:03Z")
> [@keith](#): > > If the cops investigate and ask you questions, are they violating your rights? I don’t remember that post but must be back there 6 years ago or so. I support LEOs and have never been arrested and never in trouble outside of traffic issues. BUT, after the last few years, it should be evident to everyone, that if questioned, regardless of your innocence, it is spectacularly stupid to not have a lawyer with you. If they can bankrupt and charge innocent American heros, what would they do to a normal stiff in an effort to close cases? ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/79 "2019-10-01T13:57:43Z")
OOPS, I got caught by one of those regurgitated posts. Sorry bout that. ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/80 "2019-10-01T14:25:20Z")
> [@keith](#): > > Cameras are not violating your right to privacy. No, but cameras can’t talk, so they do violate my 6th amendment right to question my accuser in court. ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046/81 "2019-10-01T14:27:57Z")
> [@shadowfax](#): > > No, but cameras can’t talk, so they do violate my 6th amendment right to question my accuser in court. It’s physical evidence, not testimony. You are allowed to inspect the physical evidence and question those who are testifying against you. Follow your logic and no physical evidence would be allowed in court. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046.md?page=3) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/photo-red-light-violation-6-photos-and-12-second-video/83046.md?page=5)