# On the draught of two and four-wheel carriages **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938 "2011-07-03T22:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![metal249](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@metal249](https://community.cartalk.com/u/metal249)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/1 "2011-07-03T22:25:16Z")
Sirs,-I shall feel obligated if one of your numerous intelligent correspondents, who has attended to the subject, will inform me, through the medium of your forum, the relative power required to draw a four-wheeled carriage and a two wheeled carriage, each containing a load of two tons- 1st, Over level ground 2nd, Over hilly ground 3rd, Through farm and parish roads I am aware that much has been written in favour of each mode of conveyance, but I am not able from what I have yet read to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![metal249](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@metal249](https://community.cartalk.com/u/metal249)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/2 "2011-07-04T00:20:59Z")
Nobody thought that was funny? ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/3 "2011-07-04T01:33:16Z")
You could have been from Tajikistan for all we know, and wouldn’t know American conversational English. Why would we jerk you around if we didn’t know any better? Were you going for Apu or a Czechoslovakian playboy? ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/4 "2011-07-04T03:04:51Z")
Sounds more like a Canadian with WAY to much time on his hands… ---
**Author:** ![metal249](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@metal249](https://community.cartalk.com/u/metal249)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/5 "2011-07-04T04:45:22Z")
It’s from The Farmers Magazine 1842, In its day much like a forum. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/6 "2011-07-04T10:27:54Z")
Has anyone asked the horses how they feel about it? 😉 I imagine the tongue weight changes on the 2 wheeler over hilly terrain would outweigh any gains in reduced friction. Talk about annoying… ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/7 "2011-07-04T22:30:21Z")
I myself would feel obliged, not obligated ---
**Author:** ![rpstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rpstrong](https://community.cartalk.com/u/rpstrong)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/8 "2011-07-05T20:17:39Z")
I would _be_ obliged, but _feel_ obligated. But that’s just I. ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/9 "2011-07-05T20:19:52Z")
It’s not just friction, though. A 4 wheel cart is a lot heavier than a 2 wheel cart, and when you only have 2 horsepower to work with, weight is a significant factor. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/on-the-draught-of-two-and-four-wheel-carriages/65938/10 "2011-07-05T22:28:43Z")
A lot more needs to be known about each cart before assuming that one is heavier than the other. Or that one requires more horsepower than the other. And then there’s the horses; they can pull more if they’re not supporting weight also. More needs be known about the carts. It’s analogous to the question of why it’s so much easier to remove a jar lid with a rubber gripper than without. The same amount of torque is required, but not the same amount of energy. The energy available is finite, and with the gripper far less of the available energy is spent providing traction and that leaves far more for torque. With wheels it’s even more complicated. A simgle difference, like the wheel diameter, tread width, or weight distribution can severely affect the outcome.