Agree! The interval was designed to allow the car to not fail during the warranty period and also make the environmentalists in government happy.
I go back to my own selfish interest to maximize engine life at an acceptable cost.
So we change oil at 5000 miles with mixed city and highway driving.
You might see if fuel is diluting the oil, I’ve seen folks use an oil analysis to determine that on direct injection vehicles. But I don’t have one of those engines myself.
Not only have we debated this topic dozens of times over the years, but as you can see, discussing oil change frequency in this forum is like discussing politics or religion; everyone retreats to their tribal positions and nobody will ever be convinced by evidence that a once-a-year/10,000 mile synthetic oil change is enough to prevent oil-related failures in a new modern car that was engineered for this level of maintenance. We always get the same non-scientific fear-based reactions from otherwise logical and intelligent people.
I think that is a great summation of the discussion. Margin of error. Sort of like telling everyone to change at “severe use” specs rather than the longer interval. It is a $50 oil change (or $100 CDN) FAR, FAR cheaper than an new engine.
3 months and 5000km is far too short. The old “every 3000 miles or 3 months” pitch in the US. But even then it takes a buncha those to spend the $5000 for a replacement engine.
I take a little bit of issue with the environmental problem. Oil is recycled.
It’s not the next one it the 20th one I’m worried about. And by the time you get to the 20th there might be a problem. 5k and earlier 3k mile oil changes were determined that engines should last a long time if you used that as the interval throughout it’s life. When the engine was new it probably could handle a longer change interval, but as time went on a shorter interval was recommended. Keep it at 5k should cover all contingency.
Every engine has a little blow-by. This contaminates the oil. As engines were - there’s more blow-by, thus the necessity for shorter oil change intervals. Keeping it at 5k, there’s no guessing. If you don’t keep your vehicles like we do (well past 300k miles), then don’t worry about it.
Heh heh heh. Tribal? What tribe would that be? I realize I’m only one guy and not scientific, but I’ll pit my success with 250K, 350K, 500K miles without an engine failure against science. It’s called experiential though rather than tribal. Then take a look at the thread with the VW with 10K changes requiring an engine at under 60K due to a “filter”? And what is the environmental cost of producing a new car or engine sooner than would otherwise be necessary.
To me the flaw in te Canadian TV report is that both it and this discussion so far ignore the severe service portion of the manual.
I have only owned one car with an oil life monitor. None of my Chrysler products ever had one nor does my Toyota and obviously none of my Studebaker’s did.
I only drive about 7000 miles a year now and I will never drive another 100 thousand miles because of my age so I just change mine every August so I don’t have to do it in cold weather.
I’ve always changed the oil and filter in my vehicles at about 5,000 mile intervals. No oil related problems so far. 7500 miles is probably ok for most non-variable valve timing engines as long as the oil is topped up between changes; I wouldn’t recommend to go beyond 5,000 miles for variable valve timing engines.
Toyota doesn’t agree with that. Every Toyota/Lexus 10,000 mile oil maintenance interval manufactured during the last ten years has variable valve timing.
Every variable valve timing problem that I have repaired were on 5,000 mile conventional oil engines.
As someone who keeps his cars for a long time, I’m not a fan of variable timing. It adds complexity by adding a lot of moving parts to an engine, just one more possible point of failure. Having said that, owning a car that has variable timing is a little like owning a car that has a timing chain, because you have systems that use the engine oil for lubrication rather than their own oil sources.
I like that my manual transmission has its own source of oil, so why not design engines that use an exclusive oil source for the variable timing, or an exclusive oil source to lubricate the timing chain the same way? If that were an option, I’d be a bigger fan of variable timing in general.
Nonetheless, I seriously doubt following the manufacturer’s recommendation for oil type (viscosity, SAE rating, etc.), and changing it as often as the owner’s manual recommends, will lead to premature failure of a variable timing system that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
I don’t think you can buy a new gasoline powered car today without variable valve timing. It’s a very mature technology, it’s been mainstream for over 20 years now.
You’re right in every respect, but still, I wonder if cars with variable timing will last as long as my '98 Civic has lasted without an overhaul of the variable timing system.
Some variable valve timing systems are better than others. One that Ford used on it’s 3 valve modular V8’s was notoriously trouble-prone in it’s early iterations. BMW’s VANOS system was also somewhat unreliable and incredibly expensive to fix when it went bad. Honda’s VTEC and VTEC-i systems seem bulletproof and cheap/easy to repair in the unlikely event they go bad. Ed repaired one on Wheeler-Dealers a few seasons ago, and it wasn’t terribly complex.
Who knows if the oil & filter on those engines were changed consistently every 5,000 miles? And if the proper oil & filter spec used? Those 10,000 mile Toyotas may have had the oil and filter changed every 5,000 miles. Newer designs are probably more robust just from the manufacturer’s learning experience. A lot of possible variables.
Usually every 3,000 miles
300 miles is a little extreme I think. Took my car in to my trusted transmission shop for a fluid pan drop and filter. Just figured out that they gave me an oil change instead. Just changed oil 300 miles ago. Guess the guy retired that used to be there so back to the shop again.
Nowadays, hardly ever 3,000 miles. That sounds like 1960s advice, out of date for many, many years.
Agree! Today’s oils are light years better than those of the 60s and 70s. In addition there is much less oil pollution due to precise fuel injection, more reliable spark control, unleaded gas and other engine improvements. 5000 miles is now the new norm even for short trip driving.
European spec oils have even more additives to permit very long drain intervals. However, if you buy one of these cars with a 20,000 mile drain interval, I would halve that and be safe.
The European figure was driven by governments trying to cut back on waste oil !!!
Yep, the 3,000 mile oil change is a relic of decades past. These days, those of us who obsess about car maintenance often use a 5,000 mile interval, and even that is overkill based on the average used oil analysis.
I do 6 months or 6000 miles myself, using synthetic oil. Usually the 6 months comes first.
It works for me.