Most owners manuals will say 7500 miles on new cars now. Less blow-by means less contamination and longer oil life. Using strictly Mobil-1 5w-30 in 2002 PT Cruiser and 2003 Sebring (both with 2.4L 4-cyl), and 2005 Honda Odyssey, and two older Civics I have been using a straight 10K interval on all my cars for years. The synthetic oil lasts longer, often recommending as long as 15K between oil changes. Why not offset the higher cost of the oil by taking advantage of it’s longer life? The “change every 3K” myth was started a long time ago by mechanics wanting steady work. Also when clearances were wider and oil was not as good as it is today, it probably was not too far off the mark.
Nope. The thing is a true gem and far superior to anything that a human can duplicate without a testing lab riding around with them.
Let’s see…Change oil every 5k miles…Very very difficult to figure out. Been using this method for well over 30 years. I have kept 3 vehicles well past the 300k mile mark…and 2 past the 250k mile mark (when I sold them they were still running GREAT). And how many miles has your SUPERIOR oil monitoring system worked for you???
I really see NO merit in a device like this.
- As with ALL mechanical devices…it’s prone to failures.
- This is too critical system to have any failures on.
- People will get dependent on it and NOT check their oil when they should.
- If one just changes their oil every 5-7k miles there’s no need for this type of system.
- Change you oil every 5-7k miles and you won’t have any problems keeping your vehicle well past the 300k mile mark.
One post refers to long oil changes as good for the environment. Where I live all used oil is recycled, and whatever makes the engine last as long as the rest of the car ensures its maximum life, and that’s really good for the environment.
The town where I live (and many others around here) use the old oil to heat many of the towns buildings. Places like Jiffy Lube heat their buildings with the old oil they drain. EXCELLENT use of the old oil.
It may be acceptable depending on the car to change the oil later. But that depends on the quality of the oil. Once you get past 3k the oil is not as resistant to heat. Even a perfectly tuned vehicle may start burning the oil as thermal protection and viscosity break down. At the very least Check the oil and make sure the color is good. I recommend changing at 3K
Many here appear to think oils have been the same since the 70’s. While most of you have been driving with 5w-20 oils without knowing it (due to shearing of the plastic viscosity index improvers), oils have come a very long way.
3k is to sell oil. It keeps the consumption pipeline full. We consume a tremendous amount of fuel PER PERSON in this nation compared to just about anyone else. The other fractions produced from the refining process have to be made into something. That’s either plastics or lubricants. You can’t store them and you can’t just dump the surplus. So, what do you do with it? You produce plastic products that consumers seem to cart out of Wall Mart by the ton …and you produce a value added lubricant that can pass through a couple of hands before being burned as a fuel.
Hence the 3000 mile prison that many willfully stay confined in.
It’s good for business.
OK, I’ve read all the posts here, and I’d like to add my two cents for those who feel inclined to read it.
I own a 2009 Honda Accord. It only has 3,000 miles on it. The little sticker the dealer put on the windscreen says FIRST OIL CHANGE 7,500 OR AFTER SIX MONTHS. Sounds like a good schedule to me. 
When the time comes for the change of oil / lube / filter, I’m going to drive up to Cambridge, MA to have the Magliozzi brothers do it.
The oil life index is a calculation based on numerous inputs from the powertrain control module, and it is fairly accurate representaion of the ability of the oil to provide lubrication. It does not account for the use of synthetic oil which generally can be changed less frequently (I change my synthetic at 5000-6000 miles). It also will not account for engine oil level, and as a former service manager for a GM dealership, I can tell you that many times I have seen an oil life index of, say, 40% with the crankcase down over 2 quarts. Use a set interval, or use the oil life index, but check the oil level weekly to monitor consumption. This is not stressed enough with dealership service customers. It is also improtant to use a high quality oil filter with longer oil change intervals.
My brother had a 1988 Honda Accord that he bought with about 100k miles on it.
He never even checked the oil, much less change it. I asked him when he changed it one day and he told me that he never changed it since he got the car.
I changed his oil for him at 135k odd miles. Nasty nasty nasty. I made sure he changed it at least every 10k miles after that. But that car ran until it had over 230k miles on it. Timing belt came off due to worn out tensioner and the engine was toast.
I don’t sweat oil changes now.
Doesn’t your Honda have a service indicator built into the odometer display? What’s wrong with following that? I’m sure the owner’s manual will tell you how to check it. On my Accord you push the odometer reset button to cycle through the different displays and one will be the oil life percentage.
Engines do not last 100k without oil changes. Some missing elements to the ommission, sounds better with the story. It likely had 2-4 before.
It sounds like the brother bought a reasonably well maintained car with 100,000 miles on it. Then just drove under the impression that cars did not need any maintenance.
It’s possible he then drove 35,000 miles without the engine caving in, since on a Honda you would need about 60,000 miles for the engine to seize up from lack of oil changes. Brother (Bodybagger) got him to change oil at 10,000 miles intervals which indicated brother did a lot of highway driving, and the high quality Honda timing belt finally gave up the ghost.
This story would be all the more reason to “sweat the oil changes” to make the car last its full design life. The point made is that 5000 miles or 7000 miles intervals does not make a great deal of difference if you drive lots of miles per year.
OP should give up on trying to reform his brother.
You know the phrase “opinions are like a______s, everyone has one.” You have gotten and will get more opinions that are all over the map. For what it is worth, here is my opinion.
With modern engine design and modern oil refining techniques, I think the 3,000 mile oil change is overkill. However, I will admit I shorten the interval for my vehicles to less than the manufacturers’ recommendations. For example, my Civic’s owner’s manual says to change the oil every 3,750 miles if used in certain conditions, and every 7,500 miles in normal conditions. I change mine every 4,000 miles. One of my motorcycles has an 8,000 mile oil change interval. I change the oil every 5,000 miles.
I think for your car, you can change the oil every 5,000 miles. It is less than what will amount to the manufacturer’s recommendation (so you can continue to play it safe), and it is short enough you will never have a sludge or other oil-caused problem with your car.
There are so many factors, it’s hard to give a blanket answer. Are there temperature extremes where you live? Hot? Cold? Do you pull a trailer or haul cargo? Is where you live hilly or flat? Do you drive mostly highway or mostly city? What’s your driving style? Do you jack-rabbit start or pull away slowly? It’s like asking how often should you cut your hair, or mow your lawn, or paint your house. Does anyone out there know if there’s an oil viscosity tester along the lines of the anti-freeze tester? If you drive harshly, then of course you should change your oil more often. There’s no harm in changing your oil more often unless you consider time, expense and environmental impact of disposing the used oil. Type of driving is worth considering when thinking about oil change frequency. Also, do you use organic or synthetic? Also a factor.
You cannot buy an oil viscosity tester in an autmotive store. However, if you have your oil tested for about $30, you will get:
1.Viscosity of the used oil and the new figure
-
The Total Acid or Total Base numbers, indicating the oil’s ability to neutralize acids.
-
Presence of water, glycol or gasoline.
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Wear metals such as silver, iron, lead,etc. in parts per milllion (ppm).
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Additives depletion.
Clarifications:
This car was purchased from a used car dealer without any maintenance records. I assume that oil changes were much more regular for the previous owner(s).
My brother hasn’t owned a car for over 10 years. This was the last car he owned. He was quite hard on vehicles. I love him, but I never let him borrow my car!
I changed the oil for him on average at 10k mile intervals because that’s about how often he was able to stop in… primarily because I wanted to see how long it would last after such neglect.
I’m pretty sure the timing belt was the second one and I’m sure it had at least 130k miles on it, but it did not break. The bearings went out of the idler pulley and allowed the belt to run off.
Yes, those miles were almost entirely highway miles. However, he had a class II hitch installed and periodically towed a boat. I’m estimating the gross trailer weight was around 2000 lb, but it was 30 mile trips on mostly level highway, and not all that frequent. He was generally too busy to take it out.
One thing is clear. This car didn’t have an easy life, but it lived much longer than expected. And in the end, it was not oil change interval that killed it, but an external mechanical failure.
Hmmmmm, that requires a high degree of trust. So, you would have to go to an oil change place and ask them to check your oil and see if it needs changing. This at a cost only slightly lower than an actual oil change.
Why ask?? Just change it.
azimuth361, I don’t think Docnick has his oil tested at a shop. He sends the sample to a lab. This doesn’t require as much trust as you might think. It is also the best approach to learn something new. You must understand Docnick is naturally curious, which I think is an admirable quality. While most people are willing to live in ignorance and live with the status quo, at least someone is challenging conventional wisdom.
If you do a simple break even analysis, the numbers support his idea. Suppose you change your oil every 3,000 miles at a cost of $30 per oil change. With your first oil change at 3,000 miles, suppose you decide to send a used oil sample to a lab for testing, which costs $30. From this test, you learn you can easily go 5,000 miles between oil changes.
If you had not done the testing, and changed the oil every 3,000 miles, you would spend about $1,000 on oil changes over the course of 100,000 miles. If you spend $30 to learn you can change the oil every 5,000 miles, you will save $358 over the course of 100,000 miles.
The point I’m trying to make is; Why change the oil if you don’t truly need to? Isn’t using the linear distance a vehicle travels a fundamentally flawed method determining the viscosity of engine oil? Does the lead-footed teenager driving a 454-powered Camaro need to change his oil with the same frequency as my grandma who drives her six-banger Oldsmobile to church on Sunday, then garages her car the other six days of the week? Does someone who hauls cargo in a pickup need to change his oil at the same rate as someone who hauls 3.5 kids in a minivan? Does the person who lives in Fairbanks, Alaska need to change his oil at the same rate as someone who lives in El Paso? Or in the mountains of Leadville, Colorado? Or the plains of Topeka, Kansas? Personally, I don’t drive 3,000 miles in a year, forget about 5,000. Does the oil break down over time regardless of miles driven? I once owned a 1979 Toyota SR5 pickup. It was such a hunk of crap (Didn’t start that way. It was a starving college student transport) that it was pretty much a disposable vehicle. Over four years of city driving in Sacramento, I NEVER changed the oil. I hoped it would die, but it refused. It was finally crushed to death Mallachi style with the same oil in it as when I bought it.
You’re right about trust, but it’s like finding a barber you like. Or a girlfriend. Or a wife. Sometimes it takes three or four failures before you find a keeper. The bottom line of any business is to make money. If there’s more money to be made in changing the oil than in sending a customer on his way with no more money in the till than the cost of testing, then the inclination is to press the customer to change the oil.
Further, I would be pleasantly surprised if I could get oil changed for $30. I haven’t had such an experience since gas was less than a dollar. Between the cost of the oil, oil filter and air filter (most people still use disposables.) we’re usually pushing at least double that. Then add on the cost of disposal. I’ve given up changing my own oil because when I try to get rid of the used oil, It’s like getting friends to pay back loans, or return my tools, or get my kids to stop getting tattoos.
“Do you want us to dispose of the oil?”
"No, just pour it into my hands. I’ll carry it home that way."
I don’t know if they charge disposal fees in the States, but here in Germany, it’s at least equal to or greater than the cost of materials and labor for the change itself. Frankly, I used to change my own oil then dispose of it commando style. NO, NO. Not THAT commando style. I left it on the doorstep of my local garage with the used bottles to assure them that it is actually oil.
That was a long way to a short point. Why change the oil at 3,000 miles? Or 5,000 miles, or 250,000 miles if it’s still good? There ought to be a way of testing the oil the way we test anti-freeze.