Odd Driving Behaviors

Oversteer is sort of fun till it becomes uncontrollable,some people are living in a Fools paradise when conditions are marginal and not adjusting to the conditions,understeer is the condition that scares me,because a lot of times it will include another innocent motorist.Interstate driving bugs me now,when its raining heavily,because you have the Folks that wont let off vs the Folks that slow to 35-40 mph with their flashers on,when this happens I’ll hit the US Routes if availible.Odd behaviors can be deadly at times-Kevin

Since I’ve never been on a skidpad, I need something to correlate g loading to. I know a typical car maxes out at 0.7-0.9G; you say most motorists don’t like to exceed 0.3; what are roads engineered for? Like, when you encounter a sign for an upcoming left turn, with “40 MPH” in amber below the arrow…what G loading does that correspond to?

One “G” is a force equal to that of gravity. For a 150 pound person, one lateral “G” means 150 pounds of force pushing sideways on the person.

The following link provides some basic formula used in road design. Understand that if a bank was designed to create zero lateral "G"s at 40 mph, the vertical "G"s, the perceived weight, would have to increase. What the curve is doing is changing the direction of a mass, it’s a “force” on the inertial energy of the car, and to change the direction of a given mass more quickly, which is what a tighter curve does, requires more force. Road designers use the formula to create a compromise between the amount of lateral force that will be experienced and the amount of vertical force “weight” that will be experienced, in such a manner that the vehicle maintains traction (weight is a factor in traction) sufficient to be safe without the danger of “slipping” down into the center of the curve. A bank too flat would cause the vehicle to slide off the curve sideways, a bank too aggressive would cause the vehicle to want to drop into the center of the curve as if it were in a bowl.

Aeronautical studies have established 5G as the amount of continuous force the average person can withstand without losing consciousness, but a key factor is the word “continuous”. A punch in the jaw produces extremely high G forces, but for an extremely short period of time. Duration is every bit as critical as peak forces. The human body can also be conditioned to withstand slightly higher continuous G forces, which astronauts and pilots do.

“For a 150 pound person, one lateral “G” means 150 pounds of force pushing sideways on the person”

The average driver in the US is much heavier than that

I can’t remember the last time I weighed 150

LOL

My guess is the reason that is not recommended is to lessen the chances of someone using the brake at the same time as stepping on the gas.

Actually, it is not recommended not to brake with the left food by everyone. (Yes, I deliberately used a double negative.) Some time ago, we had a cable guy from NYC who said his cable company paid a driving consultant to teach them to drive safely. In that company, it became policy to brake with the left foot to reduce braking response time.

No, the real reason to speak out against left foot braking is some people can’t change anything, ever. They learned on a car with a clutch, where obviously one has to brake with the right foot, and think there is some law of physics to still do it when over 95% of cars in the US are automatic.

They come up with every reason to actually criminalize left foot braking in some jurisdictions. A common one is an old careless driver sometimes rides the brake pedal. So, we are supposed to outlaw the safest thing, because his royal majesty gets angry with some guy’s brake lights on. Just as some people have a nervous breakdown if someone types in all capitals.

The correct solution is to stop criminalizing the safest driving mode, and give people tickets who ride the brake pedals, just as you do any other driving error, which is the real offense.

I haven’t been braking with my left foot for 50 years like another poster, but I have been driving with my left foot for 40 years. I am not that old yet,and I simply don’t ride the brake.

The real problem is when you make the change, It takes about two weeks to permanently train the brain to hit the left foot in an emergency, instead of the right foot, so when you guys try it once and don’t like it, you are doing bad science. Then, you want to force your bad science on the whole world.

If you want to drive dangerously, that is your business. But, when you try to force your bad science on the whole world, that is our business.

As often is the case, Docnick Rules!

“If you want to drive dangerously, that is your business. But, when you try to force your bad science on the whole world, that is our business.”

This is fascinating. Please provide a link to the study that shows accident rates are actually lower for people who brake with their left foot.

one of those debates like where to set your side mirrors, blind spot or to the rear. both are probably right and wrong, depending upon the situation and individual. one size does notfit all

Db, I used a woman driver as an example… {:stuck_out_tongue:

Bad day, Irlandes?

No, the real reason to speak out against left foot braking is some people can't change anything, ever. They learned on a car with a clutch, where obviously one has to brake with the right foot, and think there is some law of physics to still do it when over 95% of cars in the US are automatic.

Actually, I agree with this statement, even though I disagree with you about braking with the left foot.

There’s a principle called “contamination of knowledge” which says it’s unsafe to be required to take two mechanically distinct actions in different vehicles, especially if it’s safety-critical.

Now, consider the case of a driver who occasionally drives MT vehicles. In his AT “day job” vehicle, an emergency occurs, and he brakes with his left foot. In his MT “fun car” vehicle, the exact same emergency occurs, and he brakes with his…right foot! This split second needed to determine which vehicle he’s in, and what action to take INCREASES reaction time, and INCREASES the odds of getting it wrong.

This is the exact reason pilots cannot be certified to fly two different models of aircraft simultaneously…different emergency procedures, different airspeeds and power settings, etc.

SO…left-foot braking MAY be safer, if and only if the left-footer is PROHIBITED from ever operating a vehicle that requires right-foot braking. Otherwise…contamination of knowledge.

Not to belabor the whole thing but I really think we’re over-analyzing it. I’ve gone back and forth with MT and AT and the only issue I’ve ever had momentarily reaching to shift the automatic. In a panic stop with a MT, the first thing you do is put the clutch in with the left foot, then a micro second later, your foot is taken off the gas and onto the brake, but the clutch is in first. In an AT, your left foot immediately goes to the brake instead of the clutch and you don’t have the micre second delay of removing your right foot from the gas and going to the brake. I think if you are paying attention to driving, the foot operations are just very basic.

Now on to one hand driving versus two hand and no longer 10 and 2:00 because you’ll break your wrists when the air bag goes off. And if you have your thumbs around the wheel at the recommended 3 and 9:00, you’ll break your thumbs with the air bag.

I absolutely agree with meanjoe

In our fleet we have AT and MT vehicles

I work on and drive a lot of these, both AT and MT

Keep it simple

Left foot . . . clutch

Right foot . . . accelerator and brake

Let me add one thing . . . the left foot may be used to engage the parking brake

Left foot braking can give you faster reaction times and is taught in many professional driving schools. I don’t do it myself because I learned to drive on standard shift cars and drove class 8 trucks for 40+ years. I drove only one automatic class 8 truck in the thousand plus trucks I have driven and that was for only one day. When I drove school bus for 15 years the first school buses were standard shift. You can’t keep changing your driving style back and forth. The physical acts of driving have to become part of your muscle memory.

Bing: 49 years of mostly using a clutch. I have never used left foot braking with MT, AT, or electric with no transmission. With that many years of muscle memory it would be dangerous to even think of changing. As far as hand position on the steering wheel. Most modern vehicles are designed for 9 and 3. When I use this position in my current vehicle my thumbs are nowhere near the steering wheel airbag cover. My car has 8 airbags. If for some reason they all deployed at the same time I would probably suffer some minor injuries. That would be a small price to pay for the airbags saving my life. I may have a different perspective having spent hundreds of hours strapped into a Martin Baker mark 5 ejection seat. If you pulled the handle in a life or death situation you would probably be beat up a bit. The alternative was the bad part of life or death!

I have been a left-foot braker for most of 55 years. I am an old guy now and it continues to be a very comfortable, safe way to drive. I NEVER “ride the brake”, but my braking foot is always at the ready. My reaction to any on-road crisis is to back off the throttle and hit the brake with my left foot sooner than I possibly could with my right foot.

I live on the north coast of California where we have quite a number of challenging, winding roads. The left -foot technique is a real plus on such roads, if you like to drive briskly. It is so easy to balance the car when entering a turn, using the throttle and the brake in concert. My vehicle has enhanced handling, via high performance tires and suspension improvements and the dividends of left-foot braking need to be experienced to be appreciated.

I would ask why one would ask the right foot to multitask (a very popular badge of courage these days) when you have an unemployed left foot? You hear of folks hitting the wrong pedal and driving through the front door of a Chinese restaurant or fitness club and my contention is that those drivers would be much less likely to make that mistake if they had a life long left-foot braking experience.

Lastly, I would not recommend learning the technique if one has driven for many years. As mentioned, most folks would not be able to safely adapt. I would advocate teaching new drivers who have no interest in driving a stick shift vehicle this method.

Happy driving, however you do it, Jerry O.

I’ve been a right-footer for 47 years now, and it’s never been a problem. I’ve never hit anyone else, never been in an accident because of it, and the only accident I’ve ever been in was 9 years ago when someone hit me… in the side… while driving next to me on the highway. He suddenly realized he missed his exit and tried to go through me to make it.

I truly believe it’s ludicrous to claim that one way is right and the other wrong. Either way can be safe if used properly. I was taught to use only the right foot, Jerry apparently learned to use both feet. I’ve never seen a study that shows that safety and accident prevention are dependent upon which foot you use. Accident prevention is based upon looking, paying attention, giving other drivers the room they need, and giving yourself the room to stop that you need. And sobriety.

Yesterday I came upon an accident in Stratham at a busy intersection (the first responders had just gotten there). A motorcyclist (no helmet) apparently slammed into the rear quarter panel of a small SUV. His head split wide open and he died right there on the ground. The foot used for braking was irrelevant… the accident and the fatality were caused by stupidity, someone not paying attention, and perhaps not leaving enough room.

I challenge anyone to find a single accident wherein the foot used to brake was a factor. Unless someone can, than I consider the arguing to be for no good reason whatsoever.

“the accident and the fatality were caused by stupidity, someone not paying attention, and perhaps not leaving enough room.”

I agree with you, but I think that it could also be argued that refusal to use a helmet was a factor in his death. Or, in other words, a series of bad decisions on the part of that biker.

Absolutely. That’s the stupidity that made the accident a fatality.
In this case, the biker was clearly, 100% at fault. He hit the SUV from behind in the rear quarter panel at a stoplight. He hit her hard enough to trigger her airbag, so he slammed into her pretty hard. If he’d been paying attention the accident never would have happened. If he’d have been wearing a helmet he’d probably have broken a bone or two and gotten a citation. Instead, he’s dead.

If he'd have been wearing a helmet he'd probably be a quadriplegic and gotten a citation

More likely…if he hit hard enough to split his head open, and set the airbags off, he hit hard enough to snap his spine.

@‌JerryO

May I presume you drive an automatic?

If you’re driving a stick shift and are a left foot braker, that would mean your left foot is multitasking, unless you drive a stick without a clutch pedal

And that would make you a hypocrite, according to your own words

Or brave . . .

Or . . .