Obese cars

Maintenance/Repairs
21

Your idea that safer cars yield less-safe drivers is actually not without merit. There’s an interesting book, Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt that you might find interesting. Or not - I tend to be more geeky than most :wink: But it does have several interviews with traffic engineers who explain that the safer we make a road, the more recklessly people drive on it because they feel safer, and the same applies to cars.

There’s a psychological concept that people are comfortable with a certain level of risk, and they’ll tend to adjust their behavior to get to that level. If they’re comfortable whizzing along at 90mph when it’s dry and sunny, they’ll slow down at night when it’s raining. If they’re comfortable doing 45mph in a car with a broken seat belt, they’ll speed up once they get the seat belt fixed.

The trouble is that people are not very good at making rational risk assessments unless they’ve been formally trained to do so. That’s why many people who drive are afraid of flying even though they’re far more likely to get hurt in a car, and it also explains why you see so many morons flying past at 60mph in a snow storm.

And so, in short, you’re most likely right that the safer we make roads and cars, the dumber the average person will drive.

However, that should not be taken as an argument to go back to driving Corvairs and Pintos. Modern safety systems are effective provided drivers do not adjust their speed to compensate, which means the real solution is in making the roads appear (but not actually be) less safe than they are today. For instance, if you make lanes narrower by widening the marking strips, cars will still have the same amount of room as they did before, but the driver will feel like there’s less room and will therefore go slower.

22

Not all of us hate American vehicles, we just can’t find any that fill the needs and desires that we have.

When I was looking for a new 4 door car back in '06, I test drove a lot of different cars, including several American nameplates, and their rebadged Japanese versions, and pure Japanese competition.

What I gathered from my test drives is that the American versions were softer in the suspension, softer in the braking, vague in the steering, non-responsive when kicking the accelerator, and nearly impossible to get a manual transmission in the car I wanted. Eventually, my top 2 candidates were the Mazda 6 and the Nissan Altima. The Altima won.

When I went looking for a sports car, The Camaro and Challenger didn’t exist, and the Ford Mustang was a fat, bloated, slow, ill handling machine, that didn’t have any power in the V-6, and was not good on fuel. My Porsche Boxster is the exact opposite of the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger. I have test driven the newest versions of all three, and the 13 year old Boxster I own with 103k miles on it is still better than a brand new one of those three.

It weighs 1000 lbs less, has better brakes, better steering response, better steering feel, more responsive V-6 engine that puts out a glorious engine note under full throttle, better weight distribution front to rear, better handling, and even though it has way less power, just feels so much better to drive.

As for SUV’s, I have no need of one.
Other people can drive whatever they want, it doesn’t bother me any.

As for my motorcycle collection, there isn’t an American company that makes a product I like. Hence why I have 2 Honda’s and a Ducati waiting for me to fire them up and take them for a spin.

As soon as an American company makes a product that ticks off every box I want in a vehicle, I WILL buy it. I won’t compromise a vehicle purchase just to make someone else feel good that I “Bought American”. Its my money, I earned it, and until someone builds an American product I want, they can’t have my money.

BC.

23

“buy American” is somewhat silly when you realize that most “American” cars are built overseas and many “foreign” cars are built in Ohio. I don’t think I’m hurting the economy any more by buying a built-in-America Acura than I am by buying a built-in-Mexico Chevy. And if the argument is then that a US company is getting the profit rather than a foreign country, I’ll start listening when that US company stops outsourcing good manufacturing jobs to those foreign countries.

24

DC, I have recommended the Ford Focus to several people looking for small cars. When I was shopping for a car in January 1999, the Focus still had some reliability problems, so I opted for my Civic, which has been a great car and gets better fuel economy than a Focus from the same year.

25

I have to disagree. Lots of us drove ‘unsafe’ cars back in the day. The fact that we’re here now is no indicator that these cars were actually safe, just that we weren’t killed. Those that were are not posting here…

And cars are MUCH safer now, order of magnitude safer than they were 50 years ago, according to the deaths/million miles driven statistic.

26

You must have the only “V6” Boxster in the world :slight_smile:

27

I disagree on the 3-4 mpg for 1997 vs 2011 for Impreza. The difference is only 1 mpg less if you look at revised EPA figures from 1997 to 2011. It also is no longer a tin can.

Subaru actually is planning on introducing a smaller 2.0L engine for Forester/Impreza they use over in Japan/Europe to help fuel economy.

I would wait till the 2012 version comes out soon >>>> http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1101_2011_subaru_forester_2_0x_drive/specs.html

No longer has a timing belt and also is not an EJ series motor that seems to blow head gaskets in non-turbo 2.5L form.

28

CSA, until your post I did not see any reference to American brands vs. foreign brands. As a matter of fact the car that the OP is venting about that grew is a Subie. My own comments referenced Toyotas and Hondas having grown.

The thread isn’t about American brands vs. foreign brands. It’s about the fact that all models have grown larger and heavier over the years. I agree. They have. Personally, I sort of wish the current Camry was the size of my '91 Camry. And that the current Corolla was the size of my '76 Corolla. All the cars have grown, and I like smaller cars.

29

“in 14 years the car has gained nearly 300 lbs”

The equivalent of a wife and a teenage child. We all gain baggage.

30

Really?? Are the 2.5L engines still blowing head gaskets? I thought Subaru had worked that out by now…maybe I’ll keep my bullet-proof 1997 2.2L after all and wait 'til 2012.

31

Subaru stated 2005+ corrected. However a small sampling on this board has shown otherwise of a few posters chiming in with a 2006, 2007, 2008 and blown head gaskets. I am not convinced Subaru fixed it.

Agreed 2.2L is bullet proof, along with 2.0L turbo(WRX), and 1.8L.

Not sure what Subaru botched.

32

I remembered some old car stories about those 1920s and 30s cars with the big wheels and the lack of weight. When one got stuck, three people could pick up the rear end and walk it right off the slippery place it was stuck in. You could push one car with another and cause no damage. You could parallel park without fear of causing $800 worth of damage. OK, some of the cars didn’t cost $800 new.

They were missing some nice to have things like front brakes…

33

It’s everyone else’s fault. Really. Auto manufacturers build the cars their customers want. You just don’t happen to want what most people do. Some manufacturer’s build cars that you like, but most won’t because they can make moe money providing the vehicles they currently provide. Yeah, they could offer a manual transmission, but that would make the car cost more because it’s another option to build and keep track of. Honda is famous for offering no options whatsoever. They have different trim levels, but no factory options. That saves the customer money. Customers like that, too.

34

I watched a guy with a manual transmission start up from a stop sign while talking on a cell phone. No hands on the steering wheel for each gear shift. Not much margin for safety there.

35

I have owned a total of 4 cars so far, a 66 datsun roadster(1980ib), a 93 pathfinder(3520ib), an 86 toyota pickup(2400ib), and a 2002 ranger(2990ib), I don’t know what gas mileage my datsun gets as the odometer doesn’t work, the pathfinder averaged about 16, the toyota about 26, and the ranger about 27…all 4 have been manual transmissions driven with a light foot. It amazed me between the toyota and ford how little 18 years of technology does, 18 years, 120,000 miles, carburetor vs fuel injected, and the results are significantly less power and barely improved fuel economy.

36

One of my favorite movies is Irma la Douce starring Jack Lemmon and Shirley MacClaine. The story takes place in Paris. What fascinated me is that the police in the movie drove Renault Dauphine automobiles–roughly the size and weight of your Justy. Now I don’t know if the Paris Police department really used the Renault Dauphine police cars, but if it did, the the Dauphine must have been adequate for police work.

37

Is every one too young to remember a '59 Cadillac?

Sure, SUV’s are heavy,but the majority of cars weigh half as much as they used to.

I envy you bladecutter if you can afford the Alfa.

38

That is what I was gonna touch base on. I mean, in the 60s, what was the average weight of a vehicle? 3000, 4000 pounds? What kind of fuel economy did they get? What kind of power did those cars produce, and how many cylinders did it take?

The 65 Chevelle I owned had a 2bbl 283ci V8(4.6L?) mated to a 2 speed powerglide that got about 14~15mpg average for the time I owned it. It was rated, new, for 195hp 300tq. There are engines with half the number of cylinders, but will yield twice the fuel economy as that “small” V8, even matted to a vehicle that weighs close to what the Chevelle did

39
  1. They shouldnt need dealer support often; Ive seen how reliable they can be.
  2. I know what you mean–a Toyota`s a Toyota.
  3. Hey, you`re out of the Top 20!
40

If rolling in Neutral.