~$ New Jasper engine installed?

Maintenance/Repairs
61

When I was at the Benz dealer, it was well known that cylinder shutoff on the V12 engines was extremely problematical

At one of the training sessions, the trainer, who is an MBUSA employee, said the best thing you can do is to disable cylinder shutoff with the scan tool. And don’t bother telling the customer. He said every vehicle you work on, disable it. You’ll be doing everybody a favor :smirk:

Of course, the idea is to disable it BEFORE mechanical problems arise. But if you can manage that, you can head off future problems :wink:

62

The truck is in good shape for its age/mileage. I had the transmission rebuilt ~3 years ago. Saturday I had Grease Monkey do the oil change using Mobil 1. This was ~100 miles after the Seafoam. It snowed last night and will be in the 30’s today so it’ll be interesting to see how the engine does. Per the earlier recommendation, I will change the oil early at 2-3,000 miles and go back to using the regular Grease Monkey oil.

Btw, I don’t know if the comments regarding Dollar Store oil were in response to something I had said and if so it’s incorrect. The oil I use is Sam’s inexpensive/case 5 w30.

The guy at the parts store who sold me the Seafoam suggested that I also try Motor Medic Motor Flush. He said to run the engine for 10 minutes (directions say 5) after adding the cleaner, don’t drive the truck until you change the oil. If I were to do this I’d do so at the early Grease Monkey oil change and add the cleaner while waiting in the queue. The potential problems with that are twofold:

  1. The directions say add to a cold engine. For me to do this since I’m not changing the oil myself, the engine will be hot.

  2. The directions also say for engines over 75k to remove and clean the oil pan first. That too wouldn’t happen.

Opinion?

63

"2. The directions also say for engines over 75k to remove and clean the oil pan first. That too wouldn’t happen."

BINGO! There you go! The reason they say to do this is because you will be loosening up all the crap in the pan. If you aren’t going to remove and clean the pan then FORGET ABOUT any “motor flush”.
CSA

64

A lot of this flushing stuff is simply kerosene and similar. Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) is along the same lines.

The reason they suggest pulling the oil pan is so the pickup screen and/or filter do not plug. Since you already ran Seafoam without any issues, odds are you dislodged much of what would be a concern already and it was either drained with the oil or removed in the old filter.

The motor might be fine with a little TLC. If you see a noticeable decrease in oil burning with synthetic, then stay with it. The stuff is $25 for a 5 quart jug so not that much more than conventional. You might also add 8-10 ounces of MMO during an oil top off. This is a gentle flush and can be left in the oil for the duration of the change. If the rings are sticky, this MIGHT help with your oil consumption as well as the noisy lifters.

Noisy lifters are usually caused by sludge/crud getting into the valves inside the lifters and causing them to drain down. The goal now is to try and see if the engine can be cleaned out without rebuilding it.

65

I am sure someone driving a V12 AMG or whatever isn’t going to miss the few MPG they lose when cylinder deactivation is turned off. I guess this technology hasn’t been perfected after all. GM tried it long ago and it was a real disaster then.

I found this TSB and it explains the problem. Again, I think the truck in question is too old to have this setup. We never heard which engine it actually has but assume it is the 5.3L.

#10-06-01-008A: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) ( Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder) - (Sep 28, 2010)

Subject: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder)

Models: 2007-2008 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT

2007-2008 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado 1500, Suburban, Tahoe

2007-2008 GMC Sierra 1500, Sierra Denali, Yukon, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL

2008 Pontiac G8 GT

Equipped with Aluminum Block V8 Engine with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (RPOs LC9, LH6, L76, LFA, L92)

with Greater than 45,000 km (28,000 mi)

This bulletin is being revised to update the Condition/Cause/Correction sections, add 4WD labor time and add information about replacement of spark plugs if necessary. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-06-01-008 (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).

Condition
Some customers may comment about engine oil consumption of vehicles with higher mileage (approximately 48,000 to 64,000 km (30,000 to 40,000 mi). Verify that the induction system is assembled correctly and that there is no evidence that the engine has been ingesting dirty air due to a mis-assembled induction system. Also verify that the PCV system is functioning properly. If diagnostic procedures indicate that oil consumption is piston/piston ring related, verify that oil consumption is less than 3,000 km (2,000 mi) per liter/quart. If these conditions are met and oil consumption is less than 3,000 km (2,000 mi) per liter/quart, perform the service indicated in this bulletin.

Cause
This condition may be caused by oil spray that is discharged from the AFM pressure relief valve within the crankcase. Under most driving conditions and drive cycles, the discharged oil does not cause a problem. Under certain drive cycles (extended high engine speed operation), in combination with parts at the high end of their tolerance specification, the oil spray quantity may be more than usual, resulting in excessive deposit formation in the piston ring grooves, causing increased oil consumption.

Correction
To correct this condition, perform the piston cleaning procedure as described in this document, and install a shield over the AFM pressure relief valve per the procedure outlined in this document. Monitor oil consumption after this repair to ensure oil consumption has improved to acceptable levels. If this repair does not correct the condition, it may be necessary to replace the piston assemblies (piston and rings) with new parts.

Important: It is critical in this cleaning process that the engine/fuel injector cleaner remain in the cylinders for a minimum of 2.5 hours to fully clean the components. The cleaner solution must be removed before a maximum of three hours.

Verify the oil consumption concern following Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011F. If oil consumption is found, continue on with this bulletin.
Remove the spark plugs and ensure that none of the pistons are at top dead center (TDC).
Clean the pistons by putting 118-147 ml (4-5 oz) of Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner, GM P/N 88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804), in each cylinder. Allow the material to soak for at least 2.5-3.0 hours, but no more than three hours and then remove the cleaner. A suggested method of removing the cleaner is cranking engine over. Make sure to unplug the ignition coils and fuel injector before cranking the engine over. Also make sure that the painted surfaces are covered so no damage is done.
Remove the oil pan. Refer to Oil Pan Replacement in SI.

Remove the AFM valve (1).

Install the new shield (1), GM P/N 12639759, and tighten the AFM valve to the oil pan to 28 N·m (20 lb ft).
Important: Ensure that the engine cleaner is thoroughly removed before reinstalling the spark plugs. Failure to do so may result in a hydro-lock condition.

Reinstall the spark plugs. Replace the spark plugs if necessary due to full of carbon. Refer to the parts catalog.
Reinstall the oil pan. Refer to the Oil Pan Installation procedure in SI. Replace the oil pan gasket if necessary. Refer to the parts catalog. Replace the engine oil if necessary.
Re-evaluate the oil consumption. Document on the repair order. If the oil consumption is still greater than 0.946 L (1 qt) in 3,200 km (2000 mi), replacement of the pistons and rings will be required.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

12639759
DEFLECTOR-OIL PRESS RLF VLV (quantity of 3 per order)
1

88861802 (in Canada, use 88861804)
CLEANER, F/INJR 16 OZ LIQUID POUR (Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner)

66

Thanks markg2! Rocketman

67

I know the manager of the Grease Monkey I regularly use and I’m sure I can get him/them to pull the pan and do the flush when first on the rack. It can’t hurt, only help and won’t cost much. The directions say that following the directions the product should deal with sticky rings. I think that claim, assuming correct, is above SeaFoam’s pay grade. Again, can’t hurt. That’ll be my plan in 2-3k miles.

68

The labor guide shows 3.9 hours labor to remove and reinstall the oil pan. I didn’t know Grease Monkey did this type of work.

If it was my truck I would just change the oil and forget the additives.

69

I was thinking like 5 minutes–ignorance is bliss. I’m forgetting about gunk flush.

70

Seafoam is a pretty aggressive cleaner. It would have likely caused the same issues with crud all breaking loose as this engine flush being mentioned. You might see if they have one of those scopes people use to look down spark plug holes. Have them stick one inside the oil fill cap on the valve cover and look inside. If it is a sludge pit in there, then you would want to think twice before using an aggressive flush. Then there is also the oil pan as mentioned. You might be able to stick a scope up there and look around once all the oil is drained to see what is all left behind. If the see lots of crud, using such a flush might be something to think twice about.

As I mentioned before, those owning the Geo Metro commonly come across severely neglected engines. The flushing agent of choice seems to be 8-10 ounces or so of Marvel Mystery Oil because it is a slower and more gentle cleansing agent. LOTS AND LOTS of problems have been caused by people flushing loose all the crud all at once, ruining the engine. Seafoam has caused the death of many of these little engines because of all the junk plugging off the filter, oil passages, etc. or getting pumped into the lifters/bearings. This is the concern with your motor flush too.

Marvel Mystery Oil won’t be a 5 minute fix and may take many oil changes to see a difference. The amount is 8-10 ounces in an engine that holds 3.5 quarts in the filter and sump so you can adjust that amount according to how much your engine holds.

71

Very good counsel. The fellow at the Denver engine shop suggested that after I do the Seafoam that I add the MMO at each oil change to allow same to slowly do its thing. Someone here was really down on doing this effectively discounting any and all additives…period end of story. I do think there’s a time and place for most everything. Given my truck’s mileage and what I’ve done thus far, I think that adding the MMO at subsequent oil changes is a prudent action.

72

Yes, do MMO but remember it is a lighter oil and more volatile so will evaporate and be burned once the vapor is passed through the PCV system. Keep a really close eye on your oil levels while you are using this. Be sure not to add too much as the oil burns off.

This won’t fix things overnight but may help over the course of several oil changes.

73

Yesterday morning there was 10" of snow on the truck. When I started up the temp was 27 and stayed at 27 all day. I drove in town and I-70. Not a peep from the engine. Obviously, you cannot draw conclusions and prognosis’s from 1day. But things could look worse ;-).

As for the MMO–any reason not to add it now while I’m running the Mobil 1 for the suggested 2-3k miles until I again change the oil and then would definitely be adding the MMO?

Mark

74

"As for the MMO–any reason not to add it now while I’m running the Mobil 1 for the suggested 2-3k miles until I again change the oil and then would definitely be adding the MMO?"
Why? What For? I’d leave it alone.
CSA

75

MMO won’t hurt anything and might help free sticky rings and lifters. If the noise goes away and your oil burning diminishes after using MMO one time, I would keep with the synthetic oil but omit the MMO. Apparently something is going better for you and it might just been the synthetic oil. Apparently you have done major work on this truck in the past (transmission) and are wanting to keep it around a while. If the synthetic oil makes a difference, keep on using it! It isn’t more than a few dollars more than conventional when I buy it on sale. I haven’t had my oil changed in so long by anyone but myself that I don’t even know what a full synthetic oil change would cost at a shop.

I have a 2000 S-10 4.3L and one day it developed a noisy lifter. I don’t know why as I have always been good about changing the oil and suspect that I change it way earlier than required based on the mileage and condition of the drained oil. Anyway, I went to Mobil 1 and the noise went away. I am a big fan of synthetics in everything I own at this point. I don’t care if it is the cheapo push mower or a car. They all get synthetics now.

76

Some GM V8 engines, Chevy origin, have adjustable rocker arms. You remove the valve covers and start backing off the rocker nut until the lifter starts clacking (engine running), then tighten down slowly 1.5 turns. This is a very messy job and there are oil shields you can buy to reduce the oil loss and mess.

77

multiple oil changes can do wonders for old truck engines.

change the oil again in two weeks and if it is really dark…, do it again.

78

Yes, I ALWAYS notice that the engine oil turns dark much faster on the first change to synthetic. The cleansing properties of the oil are removing years of sludge and varnish inside this engine. That same sludge and varnish is what caused your lifters to clatter.

The parts inside a hydraulic lifter are quite tiny. Any little bit of gunk can hold the check valve open and cause it to bleed down.

I have adjusted lash on plenty of lawn mower rocker arms. You generally use a feeler gauge and don’t need to have the engine running.

I don’t think many car engines use anything buy hydraulic lifters these days. Honda was a holdout for a while and I don’t know but they may still not use them. You had to have them adjusted or risk burning valves. The bad part is that when the lash is gone, there is no clatter and the engine sounds great but the valves may not be fully closing. There are worse things than a tad of valve clatter. Some engines just seem to be a little noisier than others in this respect.

79
I don't think many car engines use anything buy hydraulic lifters these days. Honda was a holdout for a while and I don't know but they may still not use them.

Most US brands are hydraulic; most rice burners are mechanical.

80

I actually looked into this and it seems that some manufacturers are claiming that they have come up with non-adjustable solid lifters that are good for life. I wonder how this will work out. The nice thing about a hydraulic setup is that it compensates for wear over time. The valve seat might wear in a tad and the stem might stretch a tad. These are adjustable but it is a major job that involves removing camshafts, not a few minute job.

I always see a range of value when adjusting clearance on a small engine. The largest value is specified for a new engine and the small one is for a used engine. I assume the car makers account for the initial wear in or do that at the factory.