# New EV rules from EPA **URL:** \ **Category:** Buying/Selling\ **Created:** [April 12, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062 "2023-04-12T15:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/1 "2023-04-12T15:07:30Z")
The EPA has pushed a draft ruling out for comments. The ruling states that all new vehicle sales in the US be EVs by 2030 and 67% by 2032. While the major auto manufacturers have said that they will only produce EVs in or around that time frame, I’m not sure this is reasonable and I drive an EV. If you want to tell the EPA why this is a bad idea, watch for when the comment period opens up. I’m sure there is a page at [epa.gov](http://epa.gov) that will allow you to do so. I don’t have a copy of the ruling, just the article linked below. If you just want to complain, that’s what we’re here for! Have at it! > **[AP sources: EPA car rule to push huge increase in EV sales](https://apnews.com/article/biden-electric-vehicles-epa-tailpipe-emissions-31bf8104f44d81b988249483f1a79117)** > > The Biden administration will propose strict new automobile pollution limits this week that would require at least 54% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. to be electric by 2030, ramping up quickly to as high as 67% by 2032. That's according to industry... ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/2 "2023-04-12T17:44:03Z")
As I’ve stated before…this may or may not happen. Look at the Real-ID mandate. First mandate stated that all states will have a real-id by the year 2005. It’s now 2023 and the date is not all states have Real-id yet. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/3 "2023-04-12T20:45:02Z")
Yep typical. A few radicals in dc want to decide what a whole industry should manufacture and millions of citizens should be forced to buy even though current popularity is under 5%. Oh it’s for the kids, to save the planet. And if you believe that . . . ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 2:23am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/4 "2023-04-13T02:23:49Z")
> [@bing](#): > > . And if you believe that . . . People who believe and follow science actually do believe it. It’s not too hard to understand. You either believe and understand science - or you don’t. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 5:33am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/5 "2023-04-13T05:33:32Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > People who believe and follow science actually do believe it. It’s not too hard to understand. You either believe and understand science - or you don’t. Simple. I also think it’s a bunch of bullplop. The rest of the world is laughing at us. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 11:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/6 "2023-04-13T11:04:25Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > The rest of the world is laughing at us. I suggest that you begin reading more **world** news, in which case you would see that proposed US regulations are actually in line with what is taking place in the other industrialized nations. > **[EU lawmakers approve effective 2035 ban on new fossil fuel cars](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-lawmakers-approve-effective-2035-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2023-02-14/#:~:text=EU%20lawmakers%20approve%20effective%202035%20ban%20on%20new%20fossil%20fuel%20cars,-By%20Kate%20Abnett&text=BRUSSELS%2C%20Feb%2014%20(Reuters),vehicles%20and%20combat%20climate%20change)** > > The European Parliament on Tuesday formally approved a law to effectively ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the European Union from 2035, aiming to speed up the switch to electric vehicles and combat climate change. > **[Japan Transition to Electric Vehicles](https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/japan-transition-electric-vehicles)** > > Japan's transition to environmentally friendly vehicles may open up business opportunities for U.S. companies. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 11:32am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/7 "2023-04-13T11:32:57Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > I also think it’s a bunch of bullplop. The rest of the world is laughing at us. No they aren’t. This isn’t a US thing. This is from scientists all over the world. I suggest you actually do some research. Countries all over the world are adopting new policies because they know that oil is running out (or at least becoming way to expensive to extract out of the ground). This isn’t new. [World Oil Statistics - Worldometer (worldometers.info)](https://www.worldometers.info/oil/#:~:text=World%20Oil%20Reserves&text=The%20world%20has%20proven%20reserves,levels%20and%20excluding%20unproven%20reserves).) - BRITISH PATROLEUM. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 12:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/8 "2023-04-13T12:01:30Z")
Even the auto manufacturers don’t agree with you. All of the majors have plans to switch to a largely or completely EV lineup. The issue for them is the timetable, not the endpoint. Note that the EPA proposed regulations are a starting point in negotiations with all interested parties. That’s why they have a comment period. There is an article in The NY Times that is reprinted in this morning’s Baltimore Sun. If you have access to either, you might read it. The explanation is more complete than the AP article I originally referenced. ---
**Author:** ![Cavell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cavell/32/43396_2.png) [@Cavell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cavell)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 12:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/9 "2023-04-13T12:06:04Z")
i want a new car. i dont want an EV. seems like a problem. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 12:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/10 "2023-04-13T12:17:38Z")
What’s the problem? Don’t buy an EV. You have years if not decades before you MAY be required to buy an EV. Hydrogen power vehicles is also an option. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/11 "2023-04-13T12:42:16Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > Even the auto manufacturers don’t agree with you Nor do many consumers… worldwide. Every major auto manufacturer began to do the necessary R&D on EVs before any government regulations were promulgated, and the result is that they were prepared to hit the ground running, in order to keep up with the ever-growing demand for EVs. Interestingly, Toyota was the one major auto company that lagged in this respect, due to the reluctance of CEO Akio Toyoda to put a lot of emphasis on EV R&D. The result of his reluctance is the recently-introduced Toyota bZ4x, which lacks the range of most other EVs in its price class. Mr. Toyoda has been replaced at the helm by a new CEO, who vows to go full speed on the development of EVs with a much more competitive range. > **[Toyota Makes a Change at the Top as a Toyoda Steps Aside](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/26/business/toyota-ceo-toyoda.html)** > > Akio Toyoda, who has been reluctant to embrace all-electric vehicles, will be succeeded as C.E.O. by a Lexus executive. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/12 "2023-04-13T13:07:08Z")
No matter what the science or scientists say, the two most populous countries in the world are ignoring it. China and India are building coal fired power plants as fast as they can. China is smiling every time a government mandate come down to ban ICEs. China wants EVs everywhere else very badly since they supply the bulk of the raw materials for the batteries. They are laughing all the way to the bank. > **[COP26 aims to banish coal. Asia is building hundreds of power plants to burn it](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/cop26-aims-banish-coal-asia-is-building-hundreds-power-plants-burn-it-2021-10-29/)** > > On the coastline near India's southern tip, workers toil on a pier carrying a conveyor belt that cuts a mile into the Indian Ocean where the azure waters are deep enough for ships to berth and unload huge cargoes of coal. > **[Sharing insights elevates their impact](https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/a-reckoning-for-ev-battery-raw-materials.html)** > > Geopolitical upheaval and supply chain transformation challenge aspirational volume targets ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/13 "2023-04-13T13:12:45Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > China wants EVs everywhere else very badly since they supply the bulk of the raw materials for the batteries … and that will change as soon as the newer sodium-based battery technology is fully-developed. Right now, China is in the lead to replace the current battery technology with sodium-based battery technology, but that can–and likely will-- rapidly change. And, of course, sodium is both very cheap and very widely-distributed across the planet, thus making that technology extremely appealing. > **[China leads global battery patent race for post-lithium-ion era](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/China-leads-global-battery-patent-race-for-post-lithium-ion-era)** > > Once-mighty Japan and U.S. lagging in sodium-ion and other affordable tech ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/14 "2023-04-13T13:50:48Z")
Iron air and LPF are also emerging technologies that have some promise as well. LPF is in some Teslas now but it takes time to qualify new technology for any new car model. This new battery tech is always the future promise, not the “now” offering. But the mandate is to grow the EV market by a factor of 10 in 7 years and a factor of 18 in 13 years. We’ve had serious production EVs for 20 years and only have gotten to a little over 5% penetration. It doesn’t help that 5 to 20% of EV owners switch back to ICEs. This is an attempt to force the market and that never works out as planned. The shift to trucks in the 1990s is a good example of that as was the California EV mandate in the 90s. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/15 "2023-04-13T14:26:41Z")
Toyota is also late to the party because of their great success in hybrids. It’s part way to BEVs from ICE and provides enhanced gas mileage. Being late means that they may not get market penetration as others will early on. They will also face unintended problems with early BEVs, like the wheels falling off the BZ4X and sister Subaru Solterra. If there is any good news in that it is the low sales volume in the USA when the problem was discovered. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/16 "2023-04-13T15:07:55Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > Toyota is also late to the party because of their great success in hybrids I agree, and I am really enjoying my Lexus plug-in hybrid which–of course–uses Toyota hybrid technology. IMO, Mr. Toyoda assumed that his engineers “couldn’t chew gum and walk at the same time”. I believe that they could have continued to further develop their hybrid technology while _also_ working much earlier on EV technology. Apparently, his replacement does believe that they can chew gum and walk at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/17 "2023-04-13T17:42:25Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > We’ve had serious production EVs for 20 years and only have gotten to a little over 5% penetration To be fair, the range on a charge has only recently crossed a threshold that many find acceptable. I think the number of people finding EVs acceptable to meet their needs will increase dramatically as time goes on. Think hockey stick 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/18 "2023-04-13T17:47:35Z")
I don’t think range has been the issue for quite a while now. I think price, cost of a home charger or parking arrangement has replaced range. ---
**Author:** ![weekend-warrior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/weekend-warrior/32/26122_2.png) [@weekend-warrior](https://community.cartalk.com/u/weekend-warrior)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/19 "2023-04-13T18:06:41Z")
My 2 cents. Most people cannot afford to go out and buy a new car. especially ones costing 60k. The electrical grid right now cannot support everyone going to EV. that should have been the first priority. just look at all the brown and black outs Cali. has had. and having certain times to charge their vehicles. And there is only a small amount of EV’s there now compared to the masses. I don’t think the Gov’t should force anyone to get an EV. if they are so great people will line up to get one. I think once they are cheaper, range extended and prove their reliability and get them to stop catching on fire, maybe they will. And as far as them saving Global warming… everyone in the US can have an EV, but until countries like China, Russia, India, ect. start caring about the environment, I don’t think it is going to help much. but I guess every little bit helps. OK let the bashing begin. 😉 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062/20 "2023-04-13T18:20:44Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > Toyota is also late to the party because of their great success in hybrids. Toyota is also still working on Hydrogen powered vehicles. [2023 Toyota Mirai | Toyota.com](https://www.toyota.com/mirai/) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/new-ev-rules-from-epa/190062.md?page=2)