My Privacy

General Discussion
21

Not gonna happen. Those fears are vastly overblown. Is it possible? Sure. It’s also possible that you will be eaten by a bear. This does not mean you should live in fear of the woods.

Someone probably is. It’s probably not getting much public exposure because 1) if you were figuring out how to stop bad guys from doing bad things you probably wouldn’t want them to find out how you were going to stop them, and so you’d shut up about it and 2) it’s one of those cost/benefit things. Tons of resources aren’t going to be poured into this because you’re much more likely to get a computer virus than you are to have your car taken over by a bad guy, and so the security money is going to by and large go to the higher security threats.

Furthermore, when these electronics fail, they are expensive to replace.

Even if you deleted all of the convenience electronics, you’d still be looking at a big repair bill if the body control module fried. And if you’re thinking “well then I don’t want a body control module” then you’re also thinking you don’t want air conditioning. Or headlights. :wink:

In short, there is no such thing as your dad’s old 1950 Pontiac that ran purely mechanically and didn’t have any computers running anything.

And overall, this is a good thing, because your dad’s 1950 Pontiac got poorer mileage, was less powerful, less maneuverable, required more frequent maintenance, broke down more often despite keeping up on said maintenance, roasted its occupants in the summer, fogged the windows over in the winter, had headlights that were little better than oil lamps, a steering column that would spear you through the heart if you ever got in a front-end wreck, no seatbelts, or airbags, and exposed you to a neurotoxin every time you fueled it or turned the engine on… And wore out much sooner than a modern car.

Sometimes it’s worth a little electronic annoyance to get all of those gains. :wink:

There is, actually. Cops can tap into it to find you if you go missing. There’s a missing guy in my area right now. The cops are looking in a specific county miles away because his cell phone pinged on cell towers there.

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22

Maybe its not actual tracking but I often shut my phone off on long trips. If I don’t, it is constantly roaming looking for the cell towers and runs my battery down. So its at least a one way communication all the time the phone is on anyway.

Still I think the genie is out of the bottle and we need to have stringent use guidelines/regulations as well as best practice security measures. It’s the wild west right now.

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23

NO, a cell phone, if it is turned on, periodically searches for the closest cell tower and establishes a connection to it. This is necessary for you to be able to receive calls. The system has to know your nearest cell tower at all times.

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24

Or that you drive 100 miles daily.

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25

When I go out to eat at for lunch, and I’m wearing my work uniform shirt, the counter person just magically knows my name. I just can’t figure it out.:thinking:

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26

The word I heard from an auto supplier that electronic control units will contain an identifier that must be linked to the car’s VIN number to communicate. No VIN I.D., no control, no communication. That makes it far less hack-able. That makes it a headache for mechanics replacing one of the various ECU’s in the car since they must be “paired” to the specific car. That may mean it is a dealership-only repair that will cost the consumer more.

You can, but all that mechanical stuff that it used to run with has been replaced with electronics. That makes the car cleaner, safer, more fuel efficient and expensive. Expensive because of the added stuff mandated by the government to make the car safer, cleaner, ect.

27

If you get the right car, I’m not sure it’s more expensive over the ownership period. I’ve had my Acura for 9 years and 145,000 miles. In that time I’ve spent all of $1700 in maintenance and repairs, $1500 of which was the timing belt service. If I rewind to 1960 and buy a car, I’ll be very lucky if it’s even still on the road that many miles later, and guaranteed I’m gonna be doing a lot more maintenance to it to make that happen. I remember as a kid when my dad’s '74 Corolla hit 100,000 the car-guy neighbors all came over to look because that was amazing.

So, yeah, cars are more expensive up front, but you also buy them less frequently and they end up in the shop less often - at least if you get a good one.

28

Connecting is NOT tracking. The meta-data is never saved UNTIL the cell makes a call or text message.

I’ve been working in the telecom industry for over almost 20 years. I’m director of software development for a small telecom company that provides telecom solutions to companies like Verizon and AT&T.

29

Yeah, I’d say that’s correct. If I use 1970 as a target start (since I found the data)
Average car price in 1970 was $3542 (in 1970 dollars) worth $23,005 in 2018 dollars
Average car price in 2017 was $36,000 or 156% of the 1970 car.

Lifespan of the 1970 car would be less than 120K. To meet the value traget, the 2017 car would need to last 188K. Seems quite reasonable with most of today’s cars. And that average car has a bunch of accessories optional or non-existent in the 1970 car ignoring the emissions and safety equipment. That’s ignoring the fact you don’t have to get a tune-up every year, replace the exhaust every 2 years and every other service that’s no longer needed.

So I’d agree the overall value of today’s car is pretty good.

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30

Although ping data is not saved, it takes about a day for the record to be overwritten. Sometimes you hear about law enforcement looking for an individual that is missing and using this ping data to track their path. But it is very time sensitive to do so as it is not saved liked when you are actively using the phone to send/receive calls and texts. Another option, that is not supported by all service providers, is a method to ping your specific phone even if it is not in use but is turned on. This can be used to locate the current position of your phone (even without a downloaded app). If GPS is enabled, it can be very precise. If they are just using cell tower info, it is not as precise but can usually place you in a certain quadrant and distance range of the nearest tower…

31

About 12,000 Americans are killed by or are killed in a car driven by a drunk driver every year. About 1,000 per month here in the U.S. About 250 every week. Nobody has ever been killed in a car “hacked” by anyone. Ever.

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32

API wire- Driver loses mind and drives off embankment after hackers gain access to on board infotainment system in his car and force it to play the Muzak version of Muskrat Love non-stop for 4 hours…film at 11.

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33

Comparing average prices of vehicles seems a bit more complicated. In 1974, fewer people were driving luxury cars or luxury SUVs. I’m not sure how we factor that out, but I think that is a lot of the price difference.

34

Trying to clear out stuff from my folks, I ran across I letter I had sent them from basic training, I think just before I got out. I wanted a new car and had checked the prices out. The Olds Cutlass I wanted in 1971 was about $4400 from prices in the book. I lamented I wouldn’t be able to afford that so set my range closer to $2500. Three years later I bought that 74 Cutlass for $4200. Of course the salesman said I was a thief but smiled when he said it, so I doubt it was that good of a deal. The car went to 240,000 no problem when I sold it for $500. So at any rate less than 2 cents a mile in 1970’s dollars still wasn’t bad. I suppose I’m between 10 cents and 50 cents a mile now, depending on the car.

35

Mike, I stand corrected. Learn something new every day.

But with a software change, they could track your cell without you making a call, correct?

36

Plus fewer “economy” cars had anything approaching luxury features. My dad’s Corolla lacked an air conditioner, had manual everything, vinyl seats, and an FM radio. That’s pretty much it.

Meanwhile my wife’s Veloster, which is supposedly an economy car, has power windows, locks, moonroof, keyless entry and start, navigation, air conditioning, remote start, tilt wheel, whatever Hyundai calls their version of OnStar, automatic headlights, bluetooth speakerphone and music, and the list goes on.

Used to be tech separated the luxury cars from the cheap ones. You found electric windows in Cadillacs and Lincolns. Not the Dodge Omni.

I suspect that’s one reason BMW’s suck so badly on the electrical systems front. They’ve added in so many over the top stupid toys to try and separate themselves from those cars “the poors” drive that they’ve created a mess.

37

They could…but won’t. Think of the terabytes of data that would be. Some cell towers will have THOUSANDS of cell phones every second pinging in and out. That’s a lot of data. They don’t want to keep call the metadata on calls or texts, but are required to by law.