I see lots of comments by people who think they know all about the hybrid driving experience. Do anyone of you drive one?
I have been driving a Prius for 4 1/2 years and am amazed at the fears out there about battery life, acceleration, etc.
The Consumer Report car survey has rated the Prius as having the largest percentage of satisfied owners in its class for the last 5 years. It is not all about economics.
I have communications that I had several years ago with a taxi fleet operator who uses Prius(s) One of his units had 250,000 miles with no major problems…and, gasp, the big battery was still going strong. Toyota was taking that car from him and giving him a new one because they wanted to go through a tear down wear analysis. And, he operates his fleet in Vancouver, BC. Not a mild climate.
These cars are quick off the mark. When you push the accelerator, both the gas and electric motor work in tandem.
As for operation cost analysis, the only cost is virtually only gas. The brakes do not wear out because the energy is used to recharge the battery. Etc, Etc.
I have close to 90,000 miles on mine.
Recovering the cost differential from gas savings is dicey I will admit. But gas will be back to $4.00 a gallon in the not too distant future and the pay back will be quicker.
I am a retired project cost engineer and I am aware of all those arguments.
I heard a car salesman say that we Prius owners are a cult. Yes we are
I’m a Prius owner; 52,000 miles in 2 years 6 months.
No problems. (woosy first tires replaced)
Mostly “stop and go” warm weather driving, interspersed with occasional LOOOONNNGGGG drives (quite a few 1,500-3,000 mile trip) up north in mountains and snow.
Love the car.
BUT- talking about cost effectiveness: I bought when there was a $3,150 tax credit !!!
Maybe Congress (and many of you anti-Prius posters) will wake up and smell the exhaust fumes and end the tax break for mega gas guzzlers…and restore the tax credit for true Hybrids (not the fake “name only hubrids” )
The question should be “does a hybrid save energy” (or green-house gases)?
The answer is definitely NOT obvious! The extra cost of a hybrid’s production is
accurately described as extra energy. The question then becomes does the total
energy of construction, plus the energy of use, plus the energy of disposal add
up to less or more than a similar sized standard car? There are many variables
but very smart people have shown that a hybrid will not save energy or
green-house gases. When driven for a long-time (>5years) for lots of city-driving
with no accidents or battery replacements they will be better. However,
usually a Toyota Corolla will be “greener”. Turns out cost is a pretty good predictor
of energy used in production and use. However, disposal cost is rarely paid directly
by the driver.
This same question should be asked about electric cars (or plug-in hybrids).
You must consider the energy used (mining, chemical processing, etc.) in production,
the energy used for electricity generation, maintenance and disposal to get the true
energy cost.
As much as I would like a quick fix to the energy/fuel problem in America, I
have to concede the Prius is mostly a “I want to keep doing what I have always done
while, just appearing to others as being green”. Policy makers should consider
the increased total energy usage before allowing hybrids in HOV lanes. Drive less.
Walk or Bike more.
They save gas,
less oil changes,
less brake wear,
less pollution
and have higher resale value. especially the prius, a FULL hybrid. There is a difference.
I even had mine converted into a plug in . 100+ mpg is easy. When gas goes back to $4 a gallon, then subsidies stop and it goes to the real cost of $14.51 a gallon it will payoff big time.
My story;
My wife and I bought a used 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid almost 3 years ago for 12500, and we put 35000 miles a year (mostly highway) on it. We get 50 MPG and almost 3 years and 100000 additional miles later we were recently offered $8000 for the car. There must be an accountant in this group who can calculate that payback. Could we drive a used Corolla or gas Civic for 100000 miles for depreciation of $4500 AND get 20% better mileage to boot?
PK
One other economics point nobody has mentioned: The more it makes sense to buy a hybrid, the more car dealers are inflating prices. Two years ago my brother bought a Prius and paid $30k for it! MSRP (with navigation) was around $27k. So that certainly skews the comparison. (I hear Prius’ are still inflated, but no direct experience…)
One other factor that makes it difficult to analyze the Prius is that there is not a direct comparison (midsize hatchback) in the Toyota fleet. It’s easier for the Civic, Camry, Escape, etc.
Has great advantages for car users. One of the attractive qualities of hybrid automobiles is that they save their owner’s money. It would appear so, since the typical hybrid car utilizes less gasoline than a standard automobile with an internal combustion motor. Hybrids, however, are likely to have too high a sticker price to justify those claims, according to a new study.
Well here is some experience - in 2000 I bought a Honda Insight. Put 260,000 miles on it and sold it in 2010 for 3800, still running great getting 70 mpg in the summer , 61 Lifetime mpg. Paid 19,000 new . I figure the car paid for itself in gas savings. It sure saved me a pile of money, beat that with an econobox. Now driving a 2010 Prius paid 22,000 getting Lifetime mpg of 57. will keep it for 10 years and it also will save me a pile of gas money. I guess a million or so americans agree, they have one also. Carries a 9.5 ft kayak inside, can camp in it , and is now getting 65 mpg this summer. Beat that with anything else on the market, for total cost of ownership. And now 2 years later it is still worth used for what I paid for it new. Yes I guess hybrids are just a waste of money, like most of the posters here said…how wrong can you get.
If somebody wants to minimize $$, then a hybrid is just about never the way to go. Neither is AWD, or a fancy stereo, or a bigger engine, or a nice interior. As soon as somebody’s going to spend more than the minimum for a car, the hybrid is at least worth considering.
I bought one because I was looking at nice V6 new cars, and I could get double the mpgs with the hybrid. I enjoy EVERY fillup, and I get to work on my driving every mile. I would just about never be able to make the most of the V6’s power (if I wanted to keep my license). But I can make the ‘most’ of my hybrid every drive, every commute.
The study must make some assumptions about fuel prices going forward. But it’s hard to say what gasoline prices will do over the next 20 years. A carbon tax will cause the price to go up, that’s pretty much certain. As will middle east troubles in the news. Both are more likley to happen than not it seems to me. If gas prices go to $10 or $20 a gallon – it seems to me $10 isn’t out of the question within 10 years – the hybrid pay-off will be considerably faster.
I wonder, does this study take into accounts incentives you get w/a hybrid like rebates from the Federal gov’t and state gov’t? I think I recall reading numbers in Consumer’s Reports that showed fewer years that what you mention for pay back. And the right to drive in the carpool lane in some states? That’s worth a lot of $$ to many hybrid driving commuters.
Finally, there’s the repair and maintenance costs. The hybrids seem to be doing well in this regard. They seem to be more reliable than conventional cars. But that’s hard to know in advance, so I doubt they take those costs into account.
But I think the hybrid and electric-only payback time will prove sooner due to all these effects than is currently believed.
" - it seems to me $10 isn’t out of the question within 10 years -"
Is that your “gut” feel? You have no way of knowing what the price of gasoline will be ten years from now.
Heck, it might not even matter what the cost of gasoline is in 10 years if it’s high enough that we move to an alt fuel.
$10/gal gas would have me asking, “what’s a MCF of CNG selling for?” real damn quick!
“Heck, it might not even matter what the cost of gasoline is in 10 years if it’s high enough that we move to an alt fuel.”
Countries in the Middle East will always price oil to undercut the cost of alternative fuels.
Sigh. This comes up now and then, and is always rigged by choosing dissimilar cars. A Prius is not much like a Corolla. The Prius is a nicely equipped midsized hatchback. The Corolla is a modestly equipped compact sedan. The Toyota closest to the Prius in size and configuration is the Matrix, a hatchback/wagon with more cargo space, but less passenger space. Also fewer amenities, though it shouldn’t be too hard to come up with a halfway similar Matrix that’s much closer than any Corolla.
A base Matrix with a few options to pull its equip a little closer to a a Prius runs 21k and has EPA estimated annual fuel costs of 2000 per year (small engined, fwd, with an automatic, closest I could get to a Prius). In contrast the the Prius burns 1150 dollars per year and costs 24k. Gee, this looks a little different than comparing a Corolla versus a Prius. The price difference of 2k could be paid off in just over two years, and these are comparable cars. Oh, not quite, as the Prius is still an EPA size class larger and has a nicer interior.
Idiots who run comparisons like the one cited are the same naysayers who years ago predicted the batteries would be failing within a year and that people would reject hybrids if they took more than a couple of years for them to start saving money. Since most people keep their cars longer than five years enough buyers happily went for it. So now we get preposterous comparisons that stretch the payback out further. Yawn. They really are desperate, with the Prius topping the sales charts for one recent month. What next, comparing a skateboard-?
I think diesel is going to make a strong comeback!!!
A great part of marketing automobiles is status symbol/image. I would guess that the vast majority of dual wheel diesel pickups sold in the past 10 years could have been replaced with Rangers and most Escalades with Rav-4s as could most Priis could have been replaced with Accents. A true Mini
Would be just the status symbol for me when I win the lottery and move to the Caribbean.
If the feds keep artificially inflating the price via taxation and ethanol mandates, and if the economy stays in the doldrums, $10 a gallon may happen…of course the dollar will also be worth about ten cents!!
And for those who actually advocate that the feds artificially inflate the price…May you all be boiled in your own oil!
If a $1/gal federal tax had been incrementally added to gasoline what would the price of gasoline in 1980 what would the total price at the pump be today? And if CAFE standards had not been gamed would there be more practical automobiles on the road today and fewer Sherman tanks? Just curious…
I’m inclined to think that had the feds imposed that incremental additional tax the economy would be in even more of a wreck than it is. Those of us who commute would have less to spend, materials and product would cost much more to transport (increasing wholesale and retail costs), and people would be holding onto old vehicles even longer than they currently are. Since that tax would, i my case, probably add $30 a week to my commute, I’m sure the housing market would also be even deader than it is.
In short, I think the repercussions would have been disasterous. But everyone would be blaming it on everything BUT the gas tax.
"You have no way of knowing what the price of gasoline will be ten years from now. "
It’s like the TV weatherman. He can’t predict the future. But he can make a forecast.