Just the brakes should last forever. Or something like rust free brake lines to indicate an appreciation for that fact. It would be a good idea if they did so without needing to be maintained, but that is not the point, neither is service life. I bet pacemakers are internally redundant and stainless, etc., because life depends directly on them.
And pacemakers are not something that can be readily inspected–unless someone wants his/her chest to be surgically opened on a regular basis.
Brake lines, on the other hand, can be inspected when a vehicle is up on a lift. Sure, there may be a few short stretches of brake line that are not readily visible, but most of the system can be visually checked without too much difficulty.
I don’t think that the comparison to pacemakers is an apt one. Compare the “price per pound” of a car vs. a pacemaker, and I think that you will see a significant difference. Also, the price of pacemakers is frequently offset by medical insurance, so the general public is usually not even aware of how much these devices cost–and it is a pretty penny in total.
If you want cars to made to the same standard as medical devices (including the much higher profit margin on medical devices), I don’t believe that you would want to pay the price of those cars.
You obviously havent heard any of the times Cheney has gone back to the hospital to get his pacemaker adjusted.
You cant be serious that brakes should last forever. You change the pads and the shoes so why wouldnt you change other brake related items? The other posters are correct; the older the car; the more likely you are to have problems and you should have any potential problems checked every time you service your car.
I have had break lines rust out on 12 year old cars so I think you did pretty well lasting over 20 years. I still realise it is a huge safety issue. Often there are clues the brake system has a small leak in it like diminished braking or a soft pedal. The brakes may still work ok in normal driving but you should have a complete brake inspection performed as soon as possible when this happens.
I know this does not make you feel any better but the reality is the industry is not going to make stainless steel lines anytime soon if ever. But you can buy replacement brake lines that come with a CVD coating (in different colors for aestethic reasons). This is suppose to be an added measure of protection from corrosion.
Sorry if I was repeating someone else, this is a long threat and I skimmed them quickly.
I’m sorry, but the OP is out of line.
I agree. I do not support the OP’s assertion.
I’m sure automakers know how to build a vehicle that addresses the OP’s concerns. But that wouldn’t solve the overall ‘safety’ issue.
The OP’s concern is really about the risk of loosing control of an aged vehicle while driving. Solving that problem would require a lot more than better brakes.
To be safe, the ‘aged’ car would need:
1: tires whose sidewalls didn’t crack/dryrot,
2: ball joints and tie rod ends that would never come apart,
3: frames that would never rust out, allowing, for example, strut housings to dismount or axles to shift, leading to veering off the road.
I’m sure others could add to the above list. My point is if you’re expecting a manufacturer to build a vehicle that will guarantee you’ll never loose control while driving, it would cost so much you would never buy it.
Joe
I decided to do a little quick research on the price of a pacemaker, and I came up with a figure of $10,000.–$15,000. Of course, those figures included lab fees and the cost of the surgical procedure for the implant. So–and I am making some assumptions here–let us assume that the device itself costs ~$5,000. A modern pacemaker is actually pretty light, but for the sake of simplicity, let’s just assume that it weighs about 1 pound. In reality, it may actually weigh less, but I am trying to simplify the comparison that the OP wanted to make here.
So, if this device costs ~$5k and it weighs ~1 pound, that would make it…about $5,000. per lb! If you paid for a car on the same price-per-pound basis, it would cost you…something in the area of $15,000,000. to $20,000,000. And, a car contains a lot more electronic circuitry and wiring than a pacemaker, in addition to the obvious things like the engine and transmission that are the really high cost items. Gee–cars are beginning to sound like an absolute bargain in comparison with pacemakers!
If someone is driving a 20+ year-old car and expects to put less than adequate maintenance and inspection into its care, that gives us some clues as to that person’s spending habits. And, I would venture to say that this person would not be interested in cars that retailed for $15 million to $20 million. Even on the used car market, these vehicles would be out of the reach of virtually everyone.
The OP is ridiculously unrealistic–both in his expectations for the longevity of automotive components and in his comparison with cardiac pacemakers.
I’m not singling you out as I make a general comment. There are limitations to how my computer system is able to post, for example, it cannot respond to an opening post.
I can see that many can see the gripe, but say, Se la vi. We don’t have too much problem, between us. One person got it completely right, IMO with the mention of stainless steel exhaust as a luxury, rather, while the life-dependent is passed over.
Most just don’t get it and I doubt ever will. That is why the world continues in its cold progression of inhumanity despite the valiant efforts of the few.
I think you all missed the point. The dual master cylinder in theory is supposed to leave you with two (or three in some cases) brakes still working, but in practice, it doesn’t. When one line ruptures (or a caliper or wheel cylinder leaks) the pedal goes to the floor and thats all folks. If you have ever bleed brakes, you know this.
Thanks.
If someone wants to keep a vehicle operating for 20+ years, it behooves that person to be especially scrupulous with both maintaining it and with inspecting it for potential problems. Clearly, the OP thought that “normal” maintenance was enough–and he was wrong.
Exactly, if you chose to drive an older car (my daily driver is a 1982), you have to be responsible for a different level of maintenance than a new car. The good news it that they are generally less complex and easier to maintain, but you still have to do considerable preventative maintenance if you expect it to be safe and reliable. Stuff does wear out and stuff does corrode, it needs to be periodically inspected. It is not reasonable to expect requirements that every critical system be designed for an infinite life.
BTW, if your brake system is working properly, it is internally redundant. I had a flexible brake line fail on my car a few years ago during a “panic stop” (my fault), and the system responded correctly. The peddle dropped lower but two of the four brakes did work and I still stopped without hitting anything (although I did end up a bit sideways).
You’re clueless, along with still not responding as to how long you’ve owned this car and where it’s located or where it came from. Northern salt is going to eat anything up.
Your brother is a mechanic and claims that cars are ridiculous, bloated, etc.
He’s right, and why?
Because the public (YOU) wants clean air, safety features such as ABS and SRS, etc, along with electric windows, door locks, and 19 cup holders with some of them heated and cooled.
It is absolutely beyond asinine to blame a rusty 21 year old brake line on bad materials or engineering.
By your skewed logic any problem that develops on a 21 year old car of any sort is due to faulty engineering or materials.
Try reading an owners manual and you will find that many of them recommend going over things on a regular basis. If you can’t do this yourself then you have to pay someone to do it; which is the whole problem.
The car is a tool that people use every single day but 90% do not want to spend money on upkeep.
So if a strut goes bad, ball joint breaks, or wheel bearings go out on a 21 year old car that’s due to engineering/materials, huh?
So do any others also feel that a 21 year old part failure is faulty engineering/materials?
If someone’s 21 year old central AC unit drops a compressor at home does this mean it’s a faulty compressor?
I think you all missed the point. The dual master cylinder in theory is supposed to leave you with two (or three in some cases) brakes still working, but in practice, it doesn’t. When one line ruptures (or a caliper or wheel cylinder leaks) the pedal goes to the floor and thats all folks. If you have ever bleed brakes, you know this.
Not if your system is working correctly. Read my earlier post, I have had a single brake line fail and the other two brakes continued to work as designed. The brakes will fully lock before the peddle reaches the floor. If your brake system does not work like that, consider having it repaired.
OK4450–As usual, you are right on target. And, I am sure that if the OP actually responds to your post, it will be with another emotional/philosophical statement, rather than something that actually addresses the points that you raised.
I notice that the OP has also failed to respond to my comment regarding his comparison of cars with cardiac pacemakers. While my figure of $15 million to $20 million for a car is somewhat of a shot in the dark, it is illustrative of how the cost factor of a pacemaker and the cost factor of a car are on vastly different levels, thus making a comparison of the functioning and the longevity of the two devices totally invalid.
The OP is functioning on a purely emotional level, which I suppose is to be expected if one just had a very close call as a result of brake failure. However, as much as I empathize with him regarding his close call, his approach to car maintenance is clearly much more to blame than the manufacturer of the car is.
Composition shingles on a rooftop will go bad after 15-20 years even without storm damage. Faulty shingles? If so, why not a “better shingle design”?
OP, I have a question for you. Lawn mower blades also require frequent sharpening or replacement.
Why not simply make the blades stronger where they will seldom require sharpening or replacement?
Craig58 is correct. If your brake system was working correctly, then a ruptured line/caliper/cylinder would lead to a low pedal with reduced braking ability, but you would still have brakes.
As of 1967 all vehicles sold in the US must have a backup system. If your brake pedal goes right to the floor when a line/caliper/cylinder ruptures, then you had faulty brake system to begin with.
I understand the early Citroen’s, which used powered hydraulic pressure for both their braking system and their suspension, had a creative way to meet the “backup” requirement. When a brake line/cylinder/caliper ruptured and leaked out fluid, the suspension would sink and the car’s tires would drag on the wheel wells - thereby stopping the car.
As more and more communities rely 100% on SALT to remove ice and snow from roadways, maybe it’s time for stainless steel brake lines.
I suspect the number of accidents caused by rusted brake lines is so small it’s not worth regulatory action.
If your car was being serviced by a competent mechanic on a regular basis, he would have told you about your rusted brake lines long ago…Please don’t ask for MORE regulation. We have MORE than enough now…
As of 1967 all vehicles sold in the US must have a backup system. If your brake pedal goes right to the floor when a line/caliper/cylinder ruptures, then you had faulty brake system to begin with.
What kind of backup system? redundant one? cause when I was backin my 65 out one day the pedal went right to the floor and I wasn’t stopping. I had to throw it in drive to get it to stop. parked it back at home then took it to the shop and they raised it up. The guy said he didn’t know how I got it out there since there was NO fluid in the reservoir. Had my brake lines replaced and it’s working good again(well, as good as 4 drum brakes can)
when I was backin my 65 out one day
You just answered your own question.
Your 1965 vehicle still had the old ‘single’ system.
The dual systems, or systems with backups, were specified by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 105, which went into law on January 1,1968.
I vaguely recall the dual systems beginning to show up on many of the 1967 vehicles, though I’m sure others can correct me if I’m not remembering that correctly.
No they don’t. The pedal goes all the way to the floor, period. Maybe they work for a pinhole leak, but not for a rupture. Open a bleed valve on one wheel and see if you have any brakes, you won’t. If they had to work as people think they do, then the dual cylinders should have been side by side, not fore and aft.
The rear drum brakes on Japanese cars are also poorly engineered. It is possible for the wheel cylinders to expand beyond their designed range and the cups pop out even when the shoes and drums are still in spec. The adjusters are just below the wheel cylinder so as the shoes wear, the cups in wheel cylinders continually move outward. The old American system put the adjusters at the bottom so the hinge point got wider and the cups in the wheel cylinder stays in the same place. BTW, had a Honda do this and when the cup came out of teh wheel cylinder, there were NO brakes.
So, if this device costs ~$5k and it weighs ~1 pound, that would make it…about $5,000. per lb! If you paid for a car on the same price-per-pound basis, it would cost you…something in the area of $15,000,000. to $20,000,000.
Ah, you must work for a Defense Department contractor! That must be how they price wrenches and hammers.