WHEW!!! I am very surprised and happy to hear it. Good job saving it
Blackbird
I’m not sure with this engine if there are any removable keys. Many these days are a pin running through the shaft.
If for some reason you removed pulley/sprocket in the process of doing the timing…you may have dropped a key. It is only a square pin or half moon shape piece. It slides into a shaft and the pulley slides over the key also. This is what keeps the pulley from slipping on the shaft.
This is not for your car, but a good picture of the key way inside the bore. A corresponding slot would be on the shaft.
Yosemite
THAT…would be a “Woodruff Key” Ha…my Grandfather taught me that when I was about 8yrs old…never forgot it.
Yes this is a good point…something to consider surely…
I have seen crankshaft keyways damaged on Toyota V-6s and Chevrolet I-6 and V-8 engines but I’ve never seen keys sheer totally and cause the engine to be out of time. I do recall Meredes Benz having a problem with worn timing chains that they corrected with off-set keys though.
It seems for the most part we all questioned whether the engine here was ever correctly timed to begin with and in the end that was apparently the problem. Luckily no catastrophic damage was done and hopefully now everything is in order for another 60,000+ miles. IIf this was @MCBMW’s first effort at replacing a timing belt he took on a real challenge.
Are you able to run the engine with the timing covers off? Not on the road, I mean in your driveway? I can do that w/my Corolla so when I replace the timing belt, after I verify the marks remain correct after manually turning the engine a few times like it says in the manual, I’'ll put things back together everything up enough to start the engine and let it idle in the driveway for a 10 or 15 minutes. While it idles I’ll be looking at the belt dynamics and the belt routing and the idler and tensioner behavior and make sure everything is working smoothly, w/no big jumps in belt tension. Then after that’s confirmed – which so far has always been the case – I’ll turn off the engine, and double check all the timing marks remain properly aligned.
Hey everyone. I thought I’d add some supporting information.
Not my first timing belt actually. I did an Audi TT which was a real pain as my first. Motor mount removal was involved as was most of the wheel well.
You should take a look at a subaru if you haven’t. I can attest to getting it aligned properly being something of a pain, but it’s not a terrible job. Engine isn’t transverse, the belt is right up front.
The procedure I normally follow is to get the belt on, turn the engine over by hand a couple of times and then recheck the alignment of the timing marks. Remove the pin on the tensioner and turn the engine over a few more times then check the alignment on the marks again, and then and only then do I start it to check it while running. I’ll usually eyeball the belt itself and listen for nasty sounds and feel for weird vibrations and other signs of a misfire. If all is good, I button it back up.
So here’s the thing - I’ve done that each time and each time the car has driven well for a few days before starting with a subtle misfire. So I’m still thinking that I have an issue where I’m jumping teeth somehow. I’m still suspicious of the tensioner. I’ll let you know if it happens again.
As far as keys, I never had to remove any of the cam or crank sprockets at all, so that shouldn’t be an issue.
Sorry about the wall of text in my last post. Mobile version of the site doesn’t seem to preserve formatting on my posts.
The Subaru timing belts are a real pain when working on the ground but on a lift and using a good shop manual with a quality belt it’s just another timing belt. If you did the job on the ground my hat’s off to you for your perserverence. Long ago I learned to mark old belts before removing them and transferring the marks to the new belt to simplifiy installation. That method worked better for me than locking the camshafts in position.
As for repeatedly jumping out of time, the passenger head is secondary to the driver’s side in being turned and any slack that can be wrung out as the result of quickly changing RPMs would accumulate there and likely the exhaust cam would take the jump.
Well, it jumped timing again!
It was fine until my drive in to work this morning. Started missfiring when I got off the interstate.
Guess I’m in for it again. Wonder if Napa will warranty their shity tensioner for me? Or if I can get a decent belt out of Autozone. I’m just about done with this car.
OH NOOOO… Really? Have you looked at your cams? Where the cam journals are near the sprocket? Or where the cam sprocket attaches to the cam? You may have something mechanically out of line or some kind of Woodruff key issue somewhere like on the crank nose or cams… Id look into the cam sprockets…cam allignments…crank pulley…crank itself… Look at those parts… you may have a key problem or a hollowed out female keyway…or something along this line of thinking.
Blackbird
I’m taking it back apart tomorrow I guess. Time to lose another Saturday to this heap.
If any pulley involved with the timing belt is seizing for some reason, bad bearing, mis-aligned, just plumb worn out, that could cause this symptom. How about the water pump, if it is on this belt routing, is it possible it is seizing up, may some debris in the cooling system is sticking in the impellers?
Edit: & broken valve springs are a possibility, could cause a cam shaft to sieze.
I thought I’d wrap this thread up.
I wound up buying a new tensioner and belt. On the last replacement, I noticed the belt had a couple dings and holes in it. I’m still not entierly sure what happened, but my operating theory is that a ball bearing may have been hiding in the timing belt area. I noticed my cam pulleys had chips missing from their teeth as well. I think they are close enough to each other that a large enough ball bearing could have been getting jammed between the two of them. Or maybe I just had a shity tensioner.
Anyway, I replaced the passenger side cam pulleys with the chips. Cleaned the timing belt race again, and put on a new belt and new tensioner (again). The car is running fine now. This was a rough one that almost caused me to drop the Outback.