# ‘Lower-Income Americans Are Missing Car Payments’ **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2025, 10:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289 "2025-10-20T22:25:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/202 "2025-11-02T20:18:15Z")
> [@Jbear555](#): > > Nothing else anywhere. Am I just missing the obvious 🤔🤷‍♂️🤣? Here’s what’s at the top of my screen, “New Topic” button top right: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/3/9/394f826f67810f276fb64bdbad02abef86e7d097.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Jbear555](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/97f17d/32.png) [@Jbear555](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Jbear555)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2025, 8:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/203 "2025-11-02T20:57:28Z")
Thank you all! It’s there now…same place I was looking. Technology…gotta love it🤣 ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/205 "2025-11-03T15:16:00Z")
Let me get this straight. Someone not only agreed to pay $83.5k for a $40k car (which the dealer probably paid less than $30k for) but they actually _admitted_ to making such an awful deal??! ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/206 "2025-11-03T18:43:38Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > Someone not only agreed to pay $83.5k for a $40k car (which the dealer probably paid less than $30k for) but they actually _admitted_ to making such an awful deal??! Well, he had to admit to it. The buyer is stating the car is a lemon and wants a replacement car. Without giving away any particulars, someone bought a 3 year old car for that price and took out a 6 year loan at 28%. The car came with the balance of the powertrain warranty. A Very Expensive Part of the powertrain has been replaced under warranty twice now, and the buyer is concerned that when Very Expensive Part fails again it will be out of warranty, and he won’t be able to afford to pay for repairs. So many bad decisions… ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/207 "2025-11-03T19:35:21Z")
Are you allowed to post what this “very expensive part of the powertrain” might be? I am guessing it’s the transmission, and it’s a CVT, but without posting too much details, I’d like to know. My intuition is that certain CVT transmissions are inherently defective, and replacing with a new or rebuilt unit only delays the inevitable. For example, I remember when the Saturn Vue was in wide circulation, and the CVT transmission used on 4-cylinder models was known to be defective, and the alleged defects were never corrected, even in remanufactured transmissions. Same with the Nissan Versa CVT transmissions. Also, I didn’t know that a second owner could pursue a lemon law claim under the remaining factory warranty. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/208 "2025-11-03T21:28:34Z")
Several states have lemon laws that apply to used cars. California’s lemon law applies to used cars for the balance of the new car warranty. Hers a review of used cars for lemon laws. Even Arizona has one. > **[Autotrader - page unavailable](https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/lemon-laws-used-vehicles)** ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/209 "2025-11-03T23:40:28Z")
> [@bcohen2010](#): > > Are you allowed to post what this “very expensive part of the powertrain” might be? I am guessing it’s the transmission, and it’s a CVT, but without posting too much details, I’d like to know. It’s not a CVT, but what exactly it is isn’t really relevant. If a part fails under warranty, the manufacturer is required to replace it. Which the manufacturer did, twice. The driver is asking for a replacement car because he’s afraid it will fail again, which is irrelevant. Warranty only applies to actual issues present during the warranty term. I do wonder if he would be less afraid of part failure if he hadn’t signed on to pay $80K over 6 years for a $40K used car. 😀 > [@bcohen2010](#): > > Also, I didn’t know that a second owner could pursue a lemon law claim under the remaining factory warranty. Good catch, they can’t. That’s a distinction that’s not always made. Lemon Law only applies to new car purchases and only for the first 2 years/24,000 miles, at least in the 5 states I cover. And it requires 3 or more repair attempts or over 30 days out of service. There have been only 2 repairs and 8 days out of service. So technically this isn’t a state Lemon Law case. However, the buyer can apply for relief under the Magnuson/Moss Warranty Act, where they can try to demonstrate that the carmaker has not upheld the warranty under the terms expressly stated. So this in actuality is a warranty dispute case, in which the buyer feels entitled to a replacement and the manufacturer has denied it. And that will stand. It’s just about a manufacturer upholding the terms of the warranty they offered when they sold the car. The warranty makes no claims about what happens after the warranty expires (duh). ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/210 "2025-11-04T00:05:09Z")
> [@asemaster](#): > > Somebody bought a 3-year-old used car for $40K, is paying 28% with an $1100/month payment for 6 years. He will end up paying $83,000 for a used car. Last week I saw a post on Facebook with used car finance numbers like that, I thought it was fake (maybe they stole your image). I thought that if someone had an income that could support a $1200/month car payment (plus insurance), they would have taken a better approach at making the purchase. Some people don’t care or don’t understand. My neighbor bought a 2000 Nissan Frontier in 2008. A few years ago, he showed me the finance contract: Purchase price $13,000 Interest rate 19% Total of payments $19,?00. He could have bought a new Frontier for that amount. He retired from the Air Force and worked for the post office for 20 years, he should have excellent credit. I see no reason for the high interest rate, I think he just didn’t question the finance rate. ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/211 "2025-11-04T19:26:15Z")
> [@Nevada\_545](#): > > Some people don’t care or don’t understand. My neighbor bought a 2000 Nissan Frontier in 2008. A few years ago, he showed me the finance contract: > > Purchase price $13,000 > Interest rate 19% > Total of payments $19,?00. People afford what they want to afford. And they have been trained to be short-sighted and just look at the monthly payment vs total or actual cost. It’s rare that I’m shopping for a car at a dealer, but on the few occasions I have, the question always comes “What do you want the monthly payment to be?” I respond, “Well, first don’t we need to come to an agreement on the sales price of the car?” ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/212 "2025-11-04T19:50:07Z")
> [@asemaster](#): > > they have been trained to be short-sighted and just look at the monthly payment vs total or actual cost. Yup! It seems that a lot of folks are roped-in by the monthly cost of financing–without considering the **total** cost. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 12:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/213 "2025-11-05T12:36:45Z")
> [@asemaster](#): > > I respond, “Well, first don’t we need to come to an agreement on the sales price of the car?” Salesmen HATE that. We paid cash for our last 5 cars. They HATE it when I tell them I’m paying cash and lets just negotiate a price. The games they play and try to trick people has really gotten out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Cavell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cavell/32/43396_2.png) [@Cavell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cavell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 2:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/214 "2025-11-05T14:41:02Z")
Why aren’t repo cars then sold at a more reasonable price? Millions of repos? Lots of then cheaper cars? ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/215 "2025-11-05T15:25:10Z")
The loan company wants as much as they can get because what ever is left will most likely be written off. The places that buy these at auction have no reason to sell below market value. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/216 "2025-11-05T15:29:56Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > Salesmen HATE that. We paid cash for our last 5 cars. They HATE it when I tell them I’m paying cash and lets just negotiate a price. The games they play and try to trick people has really gotten out of hand. It can be helpful to seek a dealership that doesn’t play games. When I was shopping for my '22 Lexus NX 450h+, that was during the Covid Pandemic, when dealers were typically adding $5k to the sticker price. (One a-hole told me that they were charging $15k over the sticker price for that model.) I even encountered one dealer who told me that he would only give me $1k for my pristine '11 Outback Limited 3.6R as a trade-in. I had heard of a dealership in nearby PA that wasn’t adding anything to the sticker price, so I headed there. Their price was the same, whether I paid cash, or if I financed the deal. Besides their commitment to charging no more than the sticker price, they offered me $6k for my trade-in, so I saved a boatload of money by simply driving 70 miles. I lucked-out, as three of the model that I wanted were in transit, and one of them was the color combination that I was looking for. And, they were very nice and non-predatory at that dealership. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/217 "2025-11-05T16:43:32Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > It can be helpful to seek a dealership that doesn’t play games Unfortunately, they are getting harder and harder to find. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/218 "2025-11-05T16:56:04Z")
That is one of the things I liked about the CarMax close to me, no games, here is the price like it or leave it… I think a lot more of the online car places are doing that, here’s the price, no haggle… ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/219 "2025-11-05T17:11:08Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > Unfortunately, they are getting harder and harder to find. Definitely! Flemington, NJ used to be a locus for decent deals on cars, and most of the dealerships in that town were owned by the same guy. He died a couple of years ago, and his heirs sold-out to the Ciocca Group, from PA. So far, I’ve only heard negative comments regarding Ciocca. ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/220 "2025-11-05T17:24:00Z")
When I bought my Camry in February, I informed them early on it would be cash Test drive was fine We sat down They tried to get me for another $7k on top of what I already knew to be the correct price I asked them to explain what the extra $7k was for When they attempted to do so, I told them that wasn’t happening Then the salesperson went to talk to her boss She came back with a new number, the exact number I already had in my head walking in there New car dealerships really can be the heart of darkness Do your homework before Know what the correct “out the door” price is ahead of time Be prepared to walk ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/221 "2025-11-05T17:47:36Z")
> [@db4690](#): > > Be prepared to walk Also, I automatically walk out if every vehicle has a “dealer pack” of aftermarket do-dads. These things–like wheel well moldings and door edge protectors–are very low-quality, are vastly overpriced, and usually look like ■■■■ after a couple of years. Those dealer packs frequently also include “upholstery protectant”, which is invisible and which may not even be present. If I am given the choice of whether to buy a dealer pack, I will consider cars from that dealership (I always decline), but if every car on their lot already has those dubious items, I just walk away. ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289/222 "2025-11-05T18:17:30Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > Unfortunately, they are getting harder and harder to find. Once my wife had decided exactly what she wanted, she told the sales associate. A week later he calls my wife to tell her he has exactly what she wants. She gets there and he shows her a car with black upholstery, after being told the only acceptable colors were gray or beige. He looks at her and says “The only color that matters is how much green we can keep in your purse.” If I had been there I probably would have slapped him. > [@db4690](#): > > I asked them to explain what the extra $7k was for Years ago we were car shopping, and the sales rep was trying to explain all the add-on fees. I asked about some kind of “vehicle assurance verification” that was $150. He explained that it was in our best interest to make sure that every fluid, bulb, feature, tire pressure, etc. was in perfect condition before we took the car. I told him that GM already pays the dealer to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection, and if he had so little faith that the cars needed a further check he could pay for it out of his commission. We never even got to the upholstery protection…😀 [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289.md?page=10) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/lower-income-americans-are-missing-car-payments/204289.md?page=12)