You sure are doing a lot of tap dancing. So now you won the case, but are disturbed that you did not get PUNITIVE damages?
So just how much over and above the price of the vehicle or the cost of repairs were you trying to get? The previously mentioned 150 grand?
You bought a used car with all kinds of alleged problems and yet you did not catch any of it on a pre-purchase inspection?
If you did not catch it, what makes you think the seller did?
The seller took it twice to the local emissions station and the car failed twice. Beyond the other repairs we made as we were putting on alot of miles and whihc we have no problem with doing; the car couldnt legally be sold at the time of the sale AS IS; since it wasnt AS IS for parts only. Maybe the seller didnt know about the other problems; but he sure as heck knew about the emissions failures and he still sold the car to us knowing we couldnt register the car.
Second we are not a mechanic and we didnt expect this many problems with a Honda. We made the repairs as we needed the car to go back to doing deliveries as we had been out of work so long; since we brought the car quickly as we had just had an accident with the other car we had and since we took the guy for his word. Yes we know we did a very stupiud thing but what really upsets us is how not only did we get stuck with thousands of basic repairs but also $375 in emissions repairs and then we found out the car didnt pass the emisisons when it was sold to us.
Third this case was filed in small calims court and we asked for $7500 which was the purchase price; the emissins repairs and the other repairs and a small amount of punitive damages. The case couldnt be heard as the county wouldnt provide us with accomodation so we had to wait for US DOJ to see if they would investigate and force them too and when they wouldnt we refiled in county court and asked for $15000 and prayed we would get accomodation as this was now going on over 18 months. This car was our work car and it died over a year before this case was finally heard in county court so we lost delivery work as we had no car and no money to replace her until the case was settled and the seller was not being fair to us in settling the case. Meanwhile we had no way to work; couldnt pay bills and things really escalated.
The seller could have settled with us but he didnt want to pay for the repairs we made as well as $1000 for all the problems he caused so he dragged this on for over 2 years until he made out and we got royaly screwed. By the way; the seller has a $400,000 house in a very exclusive area and he sold a vacation home in Vail for a $75000 profit yet he couldnt fix the car before he sold it or even sold the car in Vail. We lost our home and more besides.
As of 2007, El Paso county no longer needs emissions tests (I live in Colorado Springs) due to a change in the state law. We are now able to register any vehicle without an emissions test here.
Can you provide a link to the Colorado law that says you’re in the right.
The only thing I could find on the CO AGs site was that used cars are generally sold “AS IS” and have a competent inspection performed beforehand.
Dear anonymous,
First off, I am not trying to start a flame here.
I think your U.S. definition of sold ‘as is’ needs a serious revision.
In Canada, a vehicle being sold ‘as is’ means just that.
There is no onus on the seller to do anything to the vehicle let alone worry about the emissions conditions.
In other words, an ‘as is’ vehicle here doesn’t have plates or insurance. It doesn’t even need wheels.
When a buyer agrees to a sale of an ‘as is’ unit, that’s ALL he gets.
It’s up to the buyer to make the vehicle roadworthy with the safety certificate, emissions tests passed, etc.
IMO the OP bought the
vehicle KNOWING it was being sold ‘as is’ and screwed up and is now looking for sympathy.
That’s my point entirely! You have no idea where the OP is located and yet you’re applying YOUR definition of “as is” to your answer. It apparently comes as a suprise to you and others that not all jurisdictions have the same definition of “as is” or even support that notion. Where I live, there is no legal way to sell the car “as is”. The buyer has recourse if it fails a safety or emissions inspection regardless of what you choose to write on the bill of sale.
Well; this is not Canada. The onorous is on the seller in CO and if the seller wants to screw over an unsuspecting buyer; the law doesnt allow him to do so when he comes to issues like emissions. The law is very clear.
Maybe you dont have an EPA in Canada either but for the sake of those people who have asthma and other breathing illnesses; people need clean air and the metro Denver area doesnt always have it; hence the emissions laws.
Maybe you dont need clean water laws either but we doubt people would agree with you on that either.
We dont have the exact statute in the CRS but if you go to the state of co website; find in dmv; then go to emissions; someone there can tell you that we are correct. You can even email them; they do respond and they know us well.
The only change in what we said is that El Paso county no longer has an emissions requirement as of 1 January 07. We werent aware this took effect.
We have no reason to lie to people since we have been dealing with this since May 2002 and we certainly do not want someone else going through the nightmare we have gone through and are still going through.
AMEN
then go to departments at the top of the page to find motor vehicles
then you want to find the emissions section and as they say READ ALL ABOUT IT.
The exceptions in the case of Adams and Arapahoe are the far eastern ends of the county.
Let me ask this. Where does the seller live and where was the car originally registered?
Is it possible the registration address of the vehicle you bought is from a non-emissions county and therefore there is no real obligation to even have it pass. Maybe the seller was trying to get it to pass in the name of public relations to make the sale.
Just theorizing.
“Cravat Emptor” , “let the buyer beware”. It’s the law of the land.
“As is” means EXACTLY that. Some people must learn the HARD way, $150,000 is an expensive lesson. Your lawyer KNEW you would lose, but he took your money anyway, another lesson leaned the hard way…
It doesnt matter where the car is sold in CO. It depends on where the buyer intends to register the car since that is the prevailing issue.
So if the car was brought in Grand Junction which has no test centres; the car would have to be brought to the metro area (where the buyer lives) to test the car and if it doesnt pass; the car would legally be able to be brought back to the seller in GJ and there is no sale.
The car in this case was registered in Eagle as the seller has a second home there and its cheaper to register the car there according to him.
The car though was sold to us in Parker which is Douglas county and we live in Arapahoe county. The car was sold by a seller who knew we lived in arapahoe county and had to have an emissions test done.
Now if you have gone to the DOR site; it clearly state parts of Arapahoe county are in the emissiosn area. The parts they are referring to is the western parts and not the area around Byers.
So the seller took the car twice to the Parker emissions test centre where the car fails twice and then takes it home and tries to sell it. Why he didnt sell the car in Vail; is beyond us. Why he didnt sell the car in Elbert county which is 2 miles from his home and has no emissiosn requirements is also beyond us.
He told the court he didnt know the car failed but we proved otherwise and with him living in parker and the test centre also in parker (we have about 11 sites in the 7 county area); that sealed his fate. We got help from the guy who tested the car for the CO health dept as well as DOR and we proved our case but the court then didnt award any specific damages. In fact we didnt even get the purchase price back; court costs, emisisons repairs, etc and it took 2 years to get very little.
Those of you who live in CO and would like to help fix this loophole; pls let us know as we have tried in 3 sessions to fix it and our Senator sits on the transportation committe.
Please dont talk about what you dont know anything about. This does not apply to emissions laws in CO or in other states as other people have already stated in prior posts. The law is very clear on this and been on the books in CO for over 20 years.
It is the seller who needs to take responability and not screw unsuspecting buyers and cost them many thousands of dollars when the seller was required under the law to fix the emisisons problems or not to sell the car AS IS to someone who lives in the emissions area of CO and where they cant even register the car to drive it.
What I’m getting at is that if the physical address of the seller as listed on the title is in a county, or part of a county, that is not subject to emissions testing then I don’t see how the seller could be at fault for making this sale??
What if someone in Durango sold a car to you? Would they be required to take this vehicle 3-400 miles to Denver and get it inspected? I don’t see how this could be done.
I could add that generally in a claims suit one cannot claim any incidentals and will only get any actual damages.
The last thing I can add is that next time make sure the vehicle has a valid emissions sticker if required before handing over the money.
Approximate translation: Cravat Emptor = “let the buyer have the bow tie”. It’s actually caveat emptor. Sorry, C-man. It was too much to pass up. And I agree with your comment. ;^)
We cant help what CO law states and yes no matter where a buyer buys a car in CO; is still needs an emissions test if the car is going to be registered in the emissions area of CO.
By the way; the seller has to pay for this test too. FYI dealers also have to pay for the cost of this test to buyers of cars who live in the emissions area.
Yes that means if a someone from Durango, Burlington, Pueblo, FT Collins or any place in between sells a car they need to ask some questions. No one is forcing the seller to sell the car to someone who lives in the emissions area but the law states the test has to be done when a title transfer takes place (and the buyer lives in the emissions area) and its the seller who needs to provide a passing test.
We brought the replacement car at a dealer in CO Sprs and we put a proviso on the sale that the car has to pass Denver emissions since at the time they had different emissions from us. You can bet we are very vary these days.
The guy broke the law. A law that has been around for over 20 years so why shouldnt he pay for our repair costs with depreication; the emissions repairs with out depreciation; court costs and a small amount for all the trouble he caused? The law allows the Judge to award this and yet we got less then the purchase price which just stated the car was sold AS IS and the car was used for work so when the car died we lost work so why arent we able to be paid for lost wages? The car was only means of support so no car; no way to pay bills and the seller dragged this on for 2 years with the help of Douglas County, the Chief Judge there; Judge Marker and Magistrate BIllett ?.
Meanwhile the car dies and we have no way to get the case filed again since there is no bus at the time that went from southern Arapahoe county to Douglas county (castle rock) so we had to wait until FREX started; then we only had 4 buses to take to get to the Doug courthouse and again we shouldnt be compensated for all the time involved in this?
Appreciate your thoughts in this. You didnt state what state you live in and we are curious.
I simply wasn’t aware your resale laws were as you claim. In fact, until I read your post I didn’t think such laws even existed.
Up here, to put an ‘as is’ vehicle on the road, it needs to pass a safety test and it needs to pass an emissions test too.
If you do not have proper insurance you will not have your licence plates renewed
either.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking Canada doesn’t have EPA laws. They’re as stringent as anywhere.
To add: yes we DO have bad air here too. Too much polution.
Attempts are being made to curb the mess, but like any politics it’s pathetically slow.
Well then its time to contact and pester your elected representatives and have them pass laws to clean up your air. We suspected you had strigent laws on air and water pollution.
But think about this? What happens if a car is still sold and it didnt pass the safety test and or the emissions test? Have you any recourse? Yes you dont need to buy it but things still happen and all we are saying is people had better find out the facts before what happened to us happens to them.
Our problem in CO is there is nothing in the law which gives the buyer specific damages in a court of law when a car is still sold AS IS without a passing test. We just had an arguement with our DMV office as they think cars are not sold without passing emissions tests to people who must register the cars in the emissions areas. The seller doesnt want to spend the $25 / $15 cost when he is supposed to . The second problem in CO is the DMV has no recourse against private parties only dealers so your only option is court which takes time as the courts are backed up due to budget cuts.