Wow…you guys know how to throw a lot of info up quickly! Thank you very much. Now that question is, how to proceed with this. My mechanic specifically stated there is no connection between what happened and what they did and that it was likely caused by the metal fault. I am not saying this is correct, just relaying where we are. What to do next? Get it towed to another garage for the postmortem? Would someone actually be willing to contradict another shop? Or should I ask him to do these steps to validate his claims? Ugh - I hate this.
Even though the theories presented here for the timing belt and etc is PROBABLY true, I feel you would need a team from CSI to prove it. What if the timing belt was just a bad one and snapped? Who knows, I don’t think you will ever know. It is a car and not a criminal case. I think you should just look forward, do you want this mechanic to do the engine replacement? If he had been decent so far I guess the devil known to you is better than the next guy you don’t know anything about. That is just my 2 cents.
If you hsve more time than money, you might consider having the car towed home and doing your own bit of detective work on it. The engine’s already blown, so there’s no way you can mess it up worse than it is. You can take the head off yourself in an hour or two, and see with your own two eyes what happened. Look at the valves, and look at the psiton crown. If the piston hit the valve(s) first and then the rod broke, the valve(s) will be significantly mangled, in which case the likely cause was some failure in the timing belt system (the tensioner or the belt broke), and your mechanic may well have been at fault. On the other hand, if the rod broke first and the piston then flew into the valve, the piston/valve damage would likely be less severe.
You can also remove the timing belt cover and take a look at the timing belt and tensioner. Did the belt break? Did the tensioner break? More clues…
So in about 3 hours with a few hand tools, you can see it all for yourself and decide whether it’s worth pursuing a claim against your mechanic, or satisfy yourself that perhaps it wasn’t his fault. Either way, you’ll know a lot more than you do now, and be better informed for your next decision.
I usually have more time than money, so that’s what I’d do, but maybe you have more money than time, in which case you could tell your mechanic you want some time to think about it, and have the car towed to another shop for a second opinion.
You got 100k out of a Hyuandai. Be thankful. I can see the piston being destroyed if the timing belt failed, but not the rod itself.
Whatevever, whom ever is to blame, you still have to replace the motor.Is the car worth it?
Your decision and money. If you go with a motor, buy it new with a warranty
Skipping any thing technical, are you prepared to go to the mechanic and state that you believe he is at fault and you will go as far as small claims court to seek a verdict? Even if you are prepared to do this you still may loose, and you could at the very least spend time on this problem.
So you bring the car home and you convince yourself that the mechanic is at fault you are still a long way from getting him to pick up the bill.
I can’t think of what kind of proof you could possibly find that leaves no doubt as to who’s fault this situation is. That being said perhaps you get a judge that just likes your story and finds in your favor. In CA you could go to the Bureau of Automotive Repair and binding arbitration would be an option.
EDIT: The idea is that if the piston is destroyed there is nothing to correctly guide the rod in the bore and it falls to one side or the other and gets jammed into the cylinder wall.
In my opinion the mechanic should not only be able to explain why this happened but should do it gladly and willingly.
“Threw a rod” is not much of an explantion. There’s a reason why it’s in that position and it should not take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
I know what I would do if the car were mine and if another engine was installed. I’d want the old engine and I’d tear into it enough to find out why it went south. Really, this should not be time consuming and I don’t see it taking more than an hour to figure out.
I think the problem will be getting the guy that did the belt work to accept your conclusions (to the level of paying for the engine himself).
Some of our worst stories concern timing belt jobs and I do think more is going on instead of the old explaination that “you only hear of the problem cases not the sucessful ones”.
Just my inital thought, I don’t think I would want for my job to be “the timing belt guy” at the Dealership. What I mean is, would you like it if you were shielded from all warranty work but you had to do all the timimg belts? I am sure some would jump on this offer in an instant.
I agree this could be a sticky issue as to determining what happened and who done it. The mechanic who did the timing belt job has a vested interest in the outcome so the OP may not get the true story.
Actually, I’d trade all warranty work (except VW) for every timing belt job. Properly done and covering all of the bases there should never be a problem short of some fluke parts failure and the odds of that are about as close to zero as one could get.
If my shop had insurance to cover this type of problem (I don’t have a shop) I would submit a claim even if I was not sure my work caused the problem. Have you ever seen what it costs a shop to have such insurance and what submitting a claim costs? I have not. One Dealership policy was that the tech paid the first 200.00 then the shop took over. Others it was simply fired after the first big screw up. I have seen guys mess us big and never come back for their last paycheck,just could not face anyone.
Most of my big screw ups were very early on but I had a GM transmission cooler line leak (and I know I put that ratty clip on it) and the truck had to get brought back on a wrecker. I really do not like that clip GM has used for yesra but other guys have no trouble. We had a Camaro come in that a quickie place broke the fitting off and the car needed a radiator, that guy got fired.
This post reminds me why I hate T belts, I know, chains break too, but this belt is really crazy. I once had my Galant in the shop for a water pump and T belt, after the work was done the engine had a nasty vibration to it. I knew he got the balance shaft in the wrong way. No matter what I said the shop claimed that mitsu engines are noisy, even kept the car for one day and said everything checked out fine. I eventually went to the dealer and got the work redone and the shop had to pay me money back. I still lost significant amount of money, time and probably a few more hair.
While it’s commonly stated by many that a shop (dealer or independent) has insurance to cover screwups I’ve never known this to be the case at all.
The situation usually falls into just what you state about being self-insured so to speak and some guys are allowed a bit more leeway than others; up to a point.
We replaced the engine in our '95 Civic two years ago (about 25k miles ago) and have had good luck with it. The salvage yard claimed that the replacement engine had 100k miles on it, and the inside of the valve cover and oil pan showed few deposits and dirt. We changed everything we could on the replacement engine (timing belt, water pump, a few gaskets) and took our chances. Runs great, no problems in two years. I changed the oil/filter more often for the first 10k miles after we put it in, now the oil “looks” almost clean at the regular 3000 miles maintenance. Sounds to me like you have two ways to go here . . . if the rest of the car is decent and has been serviced on a regular basis, it’s worth something . . . less the price of the replacement of the engine. Either you sell/trade it “as is” with the deduction for the engine . . . you said $3k to do the change,and you avoid the risk of a “bad” salvage yard motor (it happens) and move on. Otherwise you get the salvage motor, have it installed, install your new stuff on it, watch it for a bit, and eventually trade it in the future and move on. Guess the question is . . . is it worth the risk to you . . .the difference in the value of the car? Or would you rather trade it as it is, let someone else either install another motor or part it out. You said that you trust your mechanic and finding a mechanic you can say that about is worth more than the money you may lose on the project you’re now stuck with. I have a mechanic friend who does the stuff that is beyond me and at times, feel like the work he does is a bit pricey. But it always stays fixed and I feel like I can trust him. That’s worth something to me. Good luck! Rocketman
If the mechanic won’t pull the head to show you, you can always ask for the old engine back for later analysis after replacement.
Just curious, how many miles have been put on the motor since the timing belt job?
Estimate 2500, but would have to check.
My personal opinion is that you could not have put 2500 miles on a motor with a botched timing belt job before something went wrong. Even if the belt had been off by just one tooth, you would have had crappy idling and possible damage almost immediately. Whatever did happen, it doesn’t sound like it had anything to do with incompetence on the part of your mechanic. Good luck!
More ways than being off a tooth to mess up a timing belt replacement.
Ditto, far more ways.
Thats my question. It seems to me that this could be caused by a bad timing belt job…valves hitting the piston…??
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Even if a mistake as small as messing up the timing belt by one tooth were to occur, it would be evident almost immediately. If you know of a timing-belt installation error that would take 2500 miles to present itself, I’m all ears.