All those “theoretical studies” equating cell phone use to drunk driving are not reflected in the ACTUALLY REAL accident statistics! Why not? Drunk driving produces very measurable increases in accident rates and severity, it’s not a subtle thing, so why isn’t the impact from cell phone use measurable in the same way? Maybe it is because to say they are similar is just a bogus claim. The fact that the rate of cell phone related accidents mirrors the rate of use is evidence that the net impact of cell phone use is a subtle thing and if there are negative effects, they must be being balanced by positive effects.
It is not unreasonable to EXPECT real world data to somewhat reflect one’s theoretical hypothesis(cell use=drunk driving). If it doesn’t, a reasonable scientist would examine what is really going on.
According to http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6090342-7.html
Is having a cell phone pressed to your ear while behind the wheel the equivalent of driving while intoxicated? According to a study by University of Utah psychologists, the answer is, unfortunately, yes."
According to Cell Phones: More Dangerous Than Driving Drunk | BicycleUniverse.com
The risk of having a traffic accident while using a cellular phone is the same as that while driving drunk, according to a study appearing in Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine. University of Toronto researchers found cell phone users four to five times more likely to get into traffic accidents than those who do not use them. “Telephones that allowed the hands to be free did not appear to be safer than hand-held telephones,” they said.
Among their findings:
– The risk of an accident was nearly five times higher than normal when a person was on the telephone one minute or five minutes before the accident. The typical call in the study lasted nearly 2 1/2 minutes.
– The collision rate was four times higher than expected when the call was made less than 15 minutes before the accident.
– Only after the driver had been off the phone for more than 15 minutes did the risk seem to dissipate.
– Younger and older drivers with a cell phone faced essentially the same risk.
– “Subjects with many years of experience in using a cellular telephone still had a significant increase in risk,” but the highest risk was among people who had not graduated from high school.
According to Teen Drivers and Texting While Driving
Three years after the preliminary results first were presented at a scientific meeting and drew wide attention, University of Utah psychologists have published a study showing that motorists who talk on both handheld and hands-free cell phones are as impaired as drunken drivers.
Each of the study’s 40 participants “drove” a PatrolSim driving simulator four times: once each while undistracted, using a handheld cell phone, using a hands-free cell phone and while intoxicated to the 0.08 percent blood-alcohol level after drinking vodka and orange juice. Participants followed a simulated pace car that braked intermittently.
Both handheld and hands-free cell phones impaired driving, with no significant difference in the degree of impairment."
According to http://www.foodconsumer.org/777/8/Driving_While_on_Cell_Phone_Worse_Than_Driving_While_Drunk.shtml
Maneuvering through traffic while talking on the phone increases the likelihood of an accident five-fold and is actually more dangerous than driving drunk, U.S. researchers report.
That finding held true whether the driver was holding a cell phone or using a hands-free device, the researchers noted.
It seems that there are multiple sources who disagree with your assessment about the likelihood of having an accident while on the phone, and these were actual studies that were designed to answer this particular question. You keep going back to two obscure statistics from two separate studies that made no attempt to answer this question about the likelihood of being in an accident while on the phone. Other than those two obscure statistics, do you have anything else?
I don’t disagree that either is problematic…my point is from a political and law enforcement point of view, outlawing hands free “ain’t gonna” happen. Holding a phone is as demonstrative as “no seat belt” . I believe in fighting the battles we can win.
I know that as an x-cop, WE may be held liable for laws we don’t enforce and an accident results. What cop would want to be required to enforce a hands free law. We’re talking about…“hook me up to the NSA so I can listen to the drivers going by in real time and tell who is on a cell”…
No, it doesn’t have to be like that. When someone is in a major accident, we don’t have to catch them in the act of drinking in order to prosecute them for driving drunk. Instead, we test the driver’s blood for drugs and alcohol. At the same time, we could be checking the drivers’ cell phone records in an effort to assign liability. It would be that simple.
By the same note, I have never seen a traffic officer cite someone for tailgating until after the accident happened. Perhaps there are citations issued for tailgating, but I am willing to bet that the majority of “following too closely” citations are written after a collision has happened rather than because the officer witnessed the driver in the act. Cell phone laws could be enforced the same way.
The next time someone is killed by a cell phone driver, an appropriate law might make the civil suit progress with less cost to the taxpayer by being settled out of court.
I suppose if enforcement was limited to an officer’s ability to catch someone in the act, it would not make any sense, but that should not stop us from prosecuting violators who are worth investigating as part of a collision where lives are lost. Wouldn’t these be handled like a murder investigation?
As hands free being a factor contributing to an accident, I agree …where time is allotted to an officer to complete his duties include obtaining court orders; I’m talking about minor violations of infractions and misdemeanors that turn into multiple violations after stopping violator. Please ask your police officer friends if they would like to be saddled with checking cell phone record usage on EVERY stop. That’s what’s required if hands free is to be enforced properly. And that’s what would have to happen if as you say, cell phone usage is as culpable as DUI.
It takes enough time to do background registrations checks prior to contact during stop and prior offense checks after license is obtained…they’re never as fast as they appear on TV.
A visual of a hand held cell is enough for a write up.
Please look into recent NSA revelations to see what a legal nightmare this could entail for routine stops.
Police should NEVER have a legal right to access cell phone usage records or conversations for minor infractions. That’s a fairytale you hope should never occur. Accidents where injury or damage has occurred is a different story.
This is NOT during an accident where court orders are more easily available if further prosecution is warranted, and you’ve prevented NO accident if you prosecute it after fact.
Again, I do not dispute your claim of cell phone usage v accidents, hands free or not. For me, it’s just a battle with our right of privacy we should not even try to win.
BTW…tailgating may seldom be written up as a violation, but it’s a hell-of-a good reason to make a stop…it’s visually identifiable.
We’re testing the use of a poll with a discussion. Curious if people see value in this. Pros/cons?
-Lackey
New interesting study showing Hummer drivers have more tickets than other cars:
This is relevant to this discussion for several reasons:
- It’s not close. They are able to look at the actual statistics and see a glaring disproportionate rate. Why don’t we see this with cell phone use?
- They note that a Hummer driver gets 4.67 times the tickets of an average driver. They are using the same logic that I used regarding cell phone drivers, except the statistics show that cell phone drivers get 1.00 times the accidents of average drivers.
If you are going to ban handheld cellphone use, then perhaps passengers in your car should be banned as well.
The use of cell phones is just another facet of increased efficiencies due to technological advances. The issue is the speed with which this capability has been accepted by the pubic.
The complexity of driving a car is a good example. Those who do not master it, are, effectively eliminated by accident or personal decision to take the bus. Driving and listening to the radio can have similar distracting characteristics.
Let Darwin manage the roadways and keep the government regulatory agencies out of my life and get them into derivatives and CDSs instead.
NO. Perhaps we could agree that talking on a hand-held phone is a distraction and possibly dangerous, but I make no distinction between talking on a hands-free device and listening to the radio…especially talk radio…like, say… NPR? It is true that BOTH ACTIVITIES can be a distraction, but I am sure no one wants to legislate against listening to the radio while driving. For that matter, other occupants in the car are as much, if not more of a distraction. Why not legislate against carrying passengers?
If our forebearers had cell phones they would have driven their covered wagons off some serious cliffs, if we as a country ever expect to get out of this present economy down turn we need to pay attention to everything we do, and save on auto repairs and personal injury attorneys fees. MAny of the mechanics in our area will be forced to sell their boats and trailer, but hey it’s tough on everyone. Besides woman can’t possibly put mascara on, drink a low fat half caf latte and talk on the phone while operating an automobile well, especailly with the GPS sulty voice reminding them they have misssed their turn! J.G. Orlando, Flaland
Absolutely yes!!!
Just two days ago, a family friend had an accident while talking to my wife from her cell phone. Her fault. Left turn accross oncoming traffic.
I have advised my kids that I will take them off my insurance if I catch them talking on their cell phones while driving.
I am a retired police lieutenant. Years ago, when cell phones first became prevalent, I would observe what appeared to be dozens of drunk drivers on the road. Vehicles would be swerving between lane markings, vehicle speeds would be inappropriate for the particular roadway, e.g., too slow on interstates or too fast on surface streets, and other classic indicators of drunk driving were observed. Sure enough, however, the drivers were not drunk but were talking on their cells. From a professional viewpoint, driving and talking on a cell phone is a prescription for disaster. Further, it is amazing to observe people talking on their cells for a half hour or more. Unless they are the president or a four star general, what can they possibly be talking about that is so important that they put themselves and so many others at risk?
Not only the general public but law enforcement as well. No one, and that includes those in police uniform, can drive, watch for other drivers, walkers, bikers, ball chasing children, car chasing dogs or other nuts on phones while driving while talking on the cell phone. Your mind is on the call taking place or trying to dial the phone to talk to someone. Good Grief - it isn’t that vital that you speak to someone on the phone while driving. I bet these people are using their cell phones while using the bathroom. If the government makes it illegal to drive and use the cell phone the fine for being caught should be $1,000.00.
thank you, Jrodriguez
Some people can’t drive with a person talking to them in the front or rear seat of the car without taking their eyes and mind off of their driving, while others can talk on the cellphone, signal pass, and look in their mirrors without losing their focus on driving. I feel any distraction from driving should be dealt with on an individual basis and that if a person has the capability to drive while talking on the cellphone,they should be allowed to do so.
Even in areas where handheld phone use is illegal, police do not enforce the law. You know why? Because cops are among the worst offenders! How many times have you see a police car rushing down the road with the driver holding cellphone to ear and maybe juggling a radio mike in the other hand? FIRST you get the cops (and firemen) to obey the law, THEN get them to get after everybody else.
And yes, I think ALL cellphone use in a moving car should be illegal.
I believe cell phone use should be banned entirely while a person is driving. Cell phones are great for when you break down, but are dangerous when you are driving for one reason–you are talking to someone who is not with you in the car. When you are carrying on a conversation with a fellow passenger, that passenger sees what you see and is aware of driving conditions. That person most likely knows when to shut up and let you drive. A person on the other of a cell phone conversation doesn’t know that and may demand your attention or concentration at the worst possible moment. And you, unless you have trained yourself to say something like, “Hold on–I can’t talk,” are likely to try to balance the needs of the road with the needs of the conversation. This applies to hands off cell phones as well.
Carry on conversations with fellow passengers–that’s great. But not with people outside the car who don’t know what you are dealing with as a driver.
I think that drivers education courses nationwide should include training on how to safely use a cell phone (hands free only) while driving. People should be trained to focus on driving first, and the conversation second (or third). They should know when to use the phone (cruising on a light traffic highway), and when not to (navigating a unknown downtown area or through ANY school zone). You can’t turn the clock back, but we can restrict use by age (no use by drivers under age 24, for instance), and by having an operating permit included on the license, which could be revoked for infractions. There should be ticketing ordinances in place which would ensure that people who abuse the privilege could be fined for that. People are going to use cell phones while walking, driving, sitting in movie theaters or behind you in a restaurant. The only thing regulating that is individual common sense and respect. In the case of driving, it needs to be regulated.
I am totally in favor of the hands free rule. Not having both hands on the wheel is not the biggest problem, it’s that when you have your hand and the phone jammed into your ear, you tend to not turn your head and look around like you should.
A total ban on cell phones? What a preposterously STUPID idea, completely idiotic! If you can’t talk on the phone because talking is too distracting, then you can’t talk, period, because IT’S NOT THE PHONE, IT’S THE TALKING. No telling the kids to sit down and be quiet, no conversations with friends or family, just dead silence.
Oh, and what about all the truckers out there? Are we going to ban CB radios? I pity the fool who tries. Truckers help each other out, advise of road and traffic conditions, keep each other alert, etc. How about FRS radios, ban them too?
Instead of giving us all brain damage by proposing a moronic ban on cell phones, there should be an educational campaign against distracted driving that starts in high school drivers ed classes. If you have to get behind a moronic law, how about a $10,000 fine for not using your turn signal? By By national debt!