I have about a 2-block downhill run before I get home. I have to stop at the top of the hill so while stopped I put it in 2nd and come down the hill with the engine braking some. Actually it starts in 1st and shifts to 2nd but no higher. I believe that shifting to 2nd gear while stopped puts less strain on the clutches than it would if I were coming down the hill and then downshifted. I don’t like to downshift while moving fast.
This has been a fun post to watch. Just about everybody is right to some degree. But the facts are, if you want to play, you have to pay. Spirited driving and manual shifting will reduce the life of the vehicle, but it won’t result in its eminent demise. It simply won’t last as long as it would if it were driven by the proverbial little old lady.
The OP enjoys taking it out and putting it through its paces once in a while. As long as he does it safely, I don’t see the harm. He’s not likely to break it, but yes, it will wear out a little sooner, thats the price he will have to pay, but i think he might have plenty of fun left in the vehicle yet.
"JayWB. It does not make sense to say that because a transmission shifts harder it is better because you think the “friction materials” slip less. There is a balance. Too much either way is bad. Too much friction and hard shifting wears away metal and causes excess heat generation. Hence the reason for trans fluid. "
Well, nebin, it may not make sense to you, but that’s the way it is anyway. Less slippage means less friction, ergo less wear.And I don’t understand your reference to the reason for transmission fluid. The “reason” for transmission fluid is to operate the hydraulic components, and to lubricate moving parts as well as carry away heat.
Elly: "Clutches are going to wear regardless of how hard they shift. "
Not true. If the clutches are applied quickly and are not allowed to slip they won’t wear. That’s why automatic transmissions can go for hundreds of thousands of miles without wearing the very thin clutches out. Provided, of course, that there are no hydraulic failures. And you’ve still provided nothing meaningful by way of correcting me, you’re still just saying I’m wrong without any explanation of what is right.
“I believe that shifting to 2nd gear while stopped puts less strain on the clutches than it would if I were coming down the hill and then downshifted.”
And there’s the problem. You believe, but you have no evidence whatever to back it up.
Aggressive driving will cost extra, no doubt about it.
As to the oil consumption, the first step should be checking the PCV and a compression test. A dry compression test at first with a follow-up wet test to determine if there is a piston ring problem.
The car has 130k miles and the oil change intervals were not specified as to time and miles unless I missed it.
Sludged or coked piston rings could be the cause of the oil consumption if the PCV system is fine.
JayWB, you ask me for evidence to my claims but you don’t offer any evidense to your’s. It seems that almost everyone on here agrees that your way of driving causes exsesive wear on several componants.
Even tho a set of clutches grab harder and quicker, they still have to slip some.
You asked the question - “Also is doing this bad for the vahicle in general?” Most everyone on here agrees that it is…
“Downshifting and engine braking are NOT bad for your automatic transmission. Bad for gas mileage? Sure. Is spirited driving harder on the car than driving sedately? Of course it is. Is hitting a bump while going fast harder on the tires and suspension than hitting the same bump going slow? Obviously.”
Look familiar Elly?
As I’ve also said, what I’m saying is based on personal experience overhauling transmissions. I just didn’t save you any of the parts.
What I’m asking you is this what experience are you basing your statements on?
“Downshifting and engine braking are NOT bad for your automatic transmission”
With a statement like your’s, I would never know that you were an expert Transmissiion man!!
Just starting your car and going to the nearest Post Office is bad for your car, however, it is unavoidable.
Again Elly,
What I’m asking you is this what experience are you basing your statements on?
Downshifting going downhill puts extra strain on the entire drive train. However it relieves the brakes some. The only experience I have is driving 63 years and doing most of my repairs myself. However, I have never overhauld a transmission.
OK OK…lets put this one to bed…Even the OP agrees with us in that this is “Stressful” to the car…he knows it but he’s out there having fun…and he KNOWS it isn’t the best thing in the world for the car. At least he’s not of the mind set of…“Gee…this is great fun, it wont wear out my car faster though will it?” He knows and had admitted what he’s doing…he’s weighed the consequences…and decided to have some fun.
All that’s left is us bickering…LOL
Blackbird
We pretty much agree that this kind of driving puts extra wear on the drive train, escept JAYwb, He still insists that it dosen’t Good bye and Merry Christmas
“The only experience I have is driving 63 years and doing most of my repairs myself. However, I have never overhauld a transmission.”
That kind of validates the OP’s question about experience. Sounds like he was asking “when have you seen this cause a problem?” not “how many trips around the sun have you made?” The takeaway is that you personally haven’t seen it cause a problem. Saying that and following with “but it stands to reason…” might have saved some time.
I have never seen it cause a problem because I have never had a transmission rebuilt. Probably if I drove like the OP or JayWB I would have. In JayWB’s unlimited experience amd knowledge, working on transmissions, how would he know what kind of driving caused the failure.
I hope they continue to drive their way, they deserve to have early transmission failure.
Almost everyone on here agree that downshifting to save the brakes, causes some more wear on the driveline.
Think about this: You are going down a long grade and you use only the brakes, the engine and trans are just doing very little, or you downshift, then the engine is working and so is the trans, the driveline, and the differential. Now if this is done reasonablly it will do little damage, but if done agressively, it will do more damage.
“I hope they continue to drive their way, they deserve to have early transmission failure.”
Judgmental? I suppose that’s not my call to make, but it’s not the sort of thing I would say.
Elly,
thank you for admitting that you have no experience to base your statements on.
One more question: Isn’t that the same as not knowing what you’re talking about?
I feel like I’m back on USENET!
All,
First I’d like to again thank everyone for participating in this lively discussion.
I’d also like to clarify that the OP (me) never questioned anyone’s experience or viewpoint – that was started by and between some of the other people posting on this forum.
It’s obvious that everyone has their own experience and viewpoint on this issue, but one thing that is certain is that technology changes and regardless of our individual experience levels, we could all probably still learn a little something about this issue.
After reading all of the posts, I decided that I’d look into it a little. I looked in my owner’s manual (which you can also find online at: http://www.manualowl.com/am/Cadillac/2005-STS/Manual/229?page=93) and found the following section related to this topic:
******** BEGIN TEXT FROM OWNER’S MANUAL********
Driver Shift Control (DSC)
Notice: If you drive your vehicle at high rpms without upshifting while using Driver Shift Control (DSC), you could damage your vehicle. Always upshift when necessary while using DSC.
Your automatic transmission has a Driver Shift Control (DSC) feature that allows you to change gears similar to a manual transmission. To use the DSC feature:
-
Slide the shift lever over from AUTOMATIC OVERDRIVE (D) to the right into the DSC area. The DIC will display which mode the transmission is in. See Driver Information Center (DIC) on page 3-69. If you do not move the shift lever forward or rearward, the vehicle will be in sport mode. While driving in sport mode, the transmission may remain in a gear longer than it would in normal driving mode based on braking, throttle input and vehicle lateral acceleration.
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Press the shift lever forward to upshift or rearward to downshift. The odometer on the instrument panel cluster will change to show the requested gear range when moving the shift lever forward or rearward.
While using the DSC feature the vehicle will have firmer shifting and increased performance. You can use this for sport driving or when climbing hills to stay in gear longer or to down shift for more power or engine braking.
The transmission will only allow you to shift into gears appropriate for the vehicle speed and rpm. The transmission will not automatically shift to the next higher gear if the engine rpm is too high.
******** END TEXT FROM OWNER’S MANUAL********
Note that the only warning regarding damage to the vehicle is in relation to failure to UPSHIFT when driving in this mode. No warning is given for downshifting, although as I mentioned in a previous post, the transmission will only allow you to shift into gears appropriate for the vehicle speed and rpm.
Also note that the manual states that the vehicle will have firmer shifting and increased performance when using this feature and that you can use this feature for sport driving - which is what I do.
I also found an explanation of a manumatic transmission here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumatic.
******** BEGIN INFO FROM WIKIPEDIA********
Manumatic refers to an automatic transmission that allows convenient driver control of gear selection. This type of transmission was introduced in the 1990s. For most of automotive history, automatic transmissions already allowed some control of gear selection using the console or column shifter. Manumatics enhanced this feature by providing either steering wheel mounted paddle shifters or a modified shift lever for more convenient operation. Different car manufacturers have been using a variety of labels for their manumatic transmissions, such as ‘Tiptronic’, ‘Geartronic’, ‘Touchshift’, ‘Sporttronic’, ‘clutchless-manual’ and others.
A manumatic differs from a semi-automatic transmission in its method of power transfer from the engine to the transmission. A manumatic uses a torque converter, like a traditional automatic transmission, while a semi-automatic transmission uses a clutch (or multiple clutches), like a traditional manual transmission. Therefore, a semi-automatic transmission offers a more direct connection between the engine and wheels than a manumatic and is preferred in high performance driving applications. A manumatic is often preferred for street use because its fluid coupling makes it easier for the transmission to consistently perform smooth shifts. Some manumatic and semi-automatic transmissions allow the driver to have full control of gear selection, while many will intervene by shifting automatically at the low end and/or high end of the engine’s operating range, depending on throttle position. Manumatics and most semi-automatic transmissions also provide the option of operating in the same manner as a conventional automatic transmission by allowing the transmission’s computer to select gear changes.
******** END INFO FROM WIKIPEDIA********
What I noted from this source is the following statement: “A manumatic is often preferred for street use because its fluid coupling makes it easier for the transmission to consistently perform smooth shifts.”
Now, I’m no mechanic or transmission expert, but as I said I’m open to learning things from different sources. We all have access to the Internet and there is a lot of information out there to learn from.
What I have not found is which model of transmission is actually in the vehicle. That might make for some interesting reading, so if any of you gearheads out there know this information, please let me know so I can look it up.
Based on what I’ve learned from the posts in this forum and the two sources I mentioned above, my opinion is that I’m not doing anything that is damaging my vehicle - especially in light of the fact that the vehicle has over 130K miles on it already and still drives great. Perhaps my driving style will mean that I will only get 200K out of it instead of 250K – I don’t know. But I CAN tell you that I’ll be having fun all the way…
I don’t know what I am talking about. I have never destroyed a transmission. But I know , and anyone should know, that if an auto transmission stayed in one gear all the time, the clutches might last forever. And if allowed to shift as needed, might last as long as the engine. But if shifted many more times than needed, might quit before the engine. SHIFTING GEARS DOES WEAR THE CLUTCHES.
Elly, at least you’re right about one thing.
JayWB1:37AMReport
" Elly, at least you’re right about one thing" . Is this what you are talking about? "SHIFTING GEARS DOES WEAR THE CLUTCHES"
When you talk about esperience, do you mean experirnce tearing up transmissions?