I have a 2005 Ford Explorer. It is on its second transmission. Everything else is great.
Regular oil changes!!
Back to the original question, I was also initially surprised to discover higher insurance rates on older cars but after thinking about it it seems to make sense.
If you’re still carrying Collision, at a certain point parts costs go up making “small repairs” more costly but the insidious thing is that if your car is in that middle range between “qualifying for stated value” and “reasonable Book value”, almost any minor claim will result in the car being totaled for a ridiculously low Book value. You’ll get “beans” for that well maintained Caprice.
On the Liability / Personal Injury side, cars are just machines and machines wear out, sometimes resulting in catastrophic failures (accidents). Add to that the numerous safety improvements that have become practically standard on newer vehicles (side air bags, improved crush zones, side vehicle avoidance, etc.) and you can see why the risk of loss is higher on older vehicles.
Just a couple more things to toss into the “worth” calculation.
+1
I use one file folder for home-related repairs/updates, and another folder for car maintenance.
Every time that maintenance or repair is performed, the invoice goes into the “car folder”, and in that same folder is a simple grid/chart that I update with all maintenance procedures.
Many years ago, I wasted some money by having the antifreeze replaced at two consecutive maintenance visits, and that was because I had forgotten about the first antifreeze change. Ever since then, I am very careful to update my grid/chart right after each maintenance. This way, a glance at that piece of paper yields the information that I need to know before scheduling the next maintenance.
It takes me about 10 minutes to construct my maintenance grid/chart after I buy a car, and then it takes only a minute or so to update it a few times per year. This is truly minimal effort that yields better maintenance and can also prevent me from wasting money with unnecessary maintenance.
If I was selling a used vehicle and T. Will showed up I might set a new record for telling someone to go away and get lost.
3 likes and who knows how many Flags . I would feel that way about anyone being that difficult to deal with .
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100k miles in a well designed and maintained vehicle isn’t a lot of miles. I keep meticulous records on my wife’s and mine vehicles. Have been for decades. My daughter (MIT grad) followed my example and has been doing the same. The repair costs on our vehicles from 100k miles to past 300k miles are far far far less then what car payments for a new vehicle would be. Wife’s 96 Accord - it’s first repair was at 240k miles for a total of $4. Sure there’s maintenance, but new or used vehicles have maintenance costs. The only repair so far on wife’s 07 Lexus was a water pump at 60k miles. I wasn’t happy wit that…but the new (aftermarket pump) has held up for 190k miles with no issues. No other repairs on that vehicle. Zero repairs so far on my Highlander with over 140k miles.
I do not know how you got so much anger towards dealers trying to make a living selling and fixing cars. Did a group kidnap you and keep you locked up in a dungeon and torture you for a year or 2? Do you not understand the “behind the scenes cost” of doing repair work? The fixed costs are far more extensive than most realize.
That $100 an hour labor charge includes the rent on the mechanic’s working space, his consumables, his workers comp insurance, business liability insurance, hazardous waste removal, uniforms, ect. All the things the shop covers whether he works or not. All part of the $25 a book hour the mechanic hopes to earn. The cost of parts is for manufacturer’s supplied parts and the dealer warranties if they fail. It also costs them money to stock the more common parts. All that is additional cost. Oddly enough, my Ford dealer’s parts and fluids cost is competitive with local suppliers and I don’t have to wonder about the quality.
As for used cars, they pay wholesale for the cars and sell them at full retail. On $10,000 car, that means they buy it at $8500 and offer it for sale at $11,500 so they can negotiate a bit and get 10,500 for it. That is, if they didn’t clean the filthy interior, add new tires, a little paintless dent removal to bump up the condition to hit the next price point. All while they are paying rent on the space it sits, the showroom and the financing charge on the car. Yeah, they don’t pay cash for the car, it is a business loan.
We are all free to chose which businesses to patronize. If you think a dealer is shining you on, go to another. If you think they are ALL that way… maybe they pick up on your attitude and really don’t want your business. The dealers are free to make the decision not to accept your business, too.
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Where you live in NH, there is plenty of cold, snow, and ROAD SALT. If you have had vehicles with 300k+ miles, unless you put 50k on them a year, would be OLD, and suffer from the frame and major components (wheel assemblies, gas tank) would corrode and rust to h*ll, even if you go to a car wash.
Even then, the car is then wet, sitting in a garage, which if attached, will be most of the time in the 40 degree zone, at which point rust develops easily. No, I wouldn’t buy any old vehicle that is in advanced stages of components welded or bolted to the frame are ready to bust off.
I know this to be a fact, not just from body shop guys and mechanics, but from my relatives’ and friends’ cars, who experienced things liked wheel assemblies just busting off, and the car couldn’t even be driven, with a wheel(s) cocked out on the top side due to no more frame attachment.
What is the most frustrating about insurance rates is how they go up, even when the car “ages”.
My 2017 Camry’s insurance has gone up every six months with Farmer’s, when the car is getting older. The agent’s excuse (& Farmer’s) is that “the cost of repairs goes up, and the number of claims has gone up.”
I have found the same complete coverage I have for less at other insurance companies, but since I also have Homeowner’s as well, I can’t find any company where the combined total is hardly any less.
There has been discussion about older cars going up in insurance rates. No, not on cars that are definitely older than my 2017, and especially not on cars that were bought used.’
That’s where I see a totally unfair schism. A car you bought new, the rates should go down. Even of this nonsense about “costing more to repair.” That’s utter nonsense on a 2017 opposed to a 2021.
But you can’t fight it, because insurance companies are designed to make as much money as possible, and the good drivers, even with the modest discounts they get, are paying for all the careless drivers who get into enough accidents.
@ToyotaWill Will , you really don’t understand do you . Yes , rates should be less as a vehicle ages . But unfortunately insurance companies have to cover peoples losses due to Forest Fires , Floods and severe storm damage. Those costs will be recovered from all the customers so a few individuals won’t have rates that are beyond their means to afford.
Another factor is that an older vehicle become a choice for young inexperienced drivers to have which means more claims for that model vehicle.
I bought my Dodge Caravan new more than 2 decades ago. The insurance (I’ve always had full collision with zero deductible, comp, high liability coverage as required by umbrella) was quite inexpensive when I bought the van and has a history of premiums going down.
For the last 15 years or so it is the least expensive vehicle in our family fleet (6 vehicles) to insure.
I find it difficult to believe a company charges more for an aging vehicle. It could be time to shop around.
CSA
It depends on your needs an level of risk and finances. New car for wife for many road trips to see her aging mom, used car for me as I do in town driving and a breakdown is no big deal.
That’s what I tried to explain. Your vehicle is over 20 years old. Insurance rates and the way they rate has changed over the years. So, your post is proof to those who continue to be critical and corrective to me, that they are wrong, and you are proof of it.
As I’ve outlined, the story for a car bought new, as they cost much more than your Caravan did at that time, and are made differently, particularly with bumpers. There are virtually no real chrome-plated steel bumpers left. There are mostly only “vestiges” of metal bumper behind all the over-done, over-priced, plastic shelled bumpers that has gone along with the mandatory gas-mileage and emission guidelines that our EPA has foisted upon us.
As a result, if you have a relatively minor rear or front end collision, the cost of the parts alone, plus the ever increasing labor costs, are part of the reason newer cars are so expensive. Thank former inflation for that as well, though the auto insurers rip you off, because we are in a deinflationary fiscal envirorment. So, shame on them, and the games they play.
I have shopped around, and though I can get my car insurance rates lower, I can’t get the home insurance with the same coverages I have, and accident-forgiveness, without paying other companies more,. It’s a rigged game. For example, you live in an a very old home. They go by the rigged “cost of replacement”, which is total BS. No, labor costs to rebuild are not higher. Contractors are out of work, and home demand is down, but the insurance companies continue to gouge you to the max.
They claim my replacement cost is double what the market value of my home is!
I’m really tired of your constant attacks and belittlement. So just stop replying.
And, no, YOU are wrong. Increases by insurance companies go by the REGION you are in, but by fires and floods that devastated other areas than the state you live in.
Ummm, I wrote a personal check for 18 or 19 grand (they wouldn’t take a credit card) when I purchased the Caravan 23 - 24 years ago. It was a " brand new" previous year “leftover.”
It does not have any chrome bumpers, they are the plastic covered bumpers as vehicles are currently using. It has ABS, integrated child safety seats in the middle row, and other modern features.
We bought the van for a reliable, safe car to haul our 2 young kids to soccer, golf, vacations, and other such things.
We and it lived in snow/salt country when it was purchased and used for the first 20 years, but was NEVER driven in winter there. It has zero rust. We have retired to Florida for winters to escape cold and snow and salt, only returning to our northern home when the roads are normal. The van has retired here, all year, every year and is kept inside, still no rust.
CSA
Math a problem for you? 300k miles divided by 30k = 10 years. What do you consider an old car? Vehicles don’t rust like they did 20 years ago. My wife’s 07 Lexus with over 250k miles has ZERO signs of rust. It’s in excellent condition. My 98 Pathfinder which I drove to over 300k miles and then my oldest put another 150k miles and then her ex boyfriend finally took it to, the junk yard when it was approaching 500k miles. The frame was NOT falling apart. You really need to check your facts.
While I say that might happen - it surely is extremely rare. If that was the case we’d be seeing it happening to cars all the time…and it’s NOT. Again…you need to check your facts.
My rates have stayed the same or decreased. Try a different insurance company or don’t get so many speeding tickets. I haven’t had a speeding ticket or a chargeable accident in a few decades. We dropped collision on the Pathfinder when it reached 300k miles.
More often when you see that, it’s because someone didn’t properly maintain their vehicle and something like a ball joint broke.
Have you considered shopping around and then telling Farmers “you know, I got a much better rate through those guys, think maybe you can stop jacking the rates on me for customer retention purposes?” Maybe your insurance company is just jacking the rates because they think you’ll sit there and pay them… And in fairness, thus far they’ve been right.
This statement, sorry to say, is incomprehensible word salad. Try again. On second thought, don’t.
I don’t know where you’re getting this notion. Contractors are so busy that it’s hard to get them out within 2 months where I am. New houses are cropping up like weeds, and home demand is sky high.
It probably is. People don’t want old houses, they want shiny new houses with modern features and layouts, which is why so many communities are having issues with people swooping in and buying old houses on small lots, then tearing them down and building half-million-dollar McMansions on the site. In other words, if your house is as old as you say and not of interest historically, it’s probably worth about what the land under it is worth and not much more. But if you went to replace it, you wouldn’t be able to just plop the same house back on the lot.
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Older homes that are in good shape go for big bucks here in southern NH. But then again all homes are expensive here. If it’s run down then all bets are off. Newer cookie cutter homes don’t get the same price as an older home of same size that’s been maintained/updated.
“In good shape” is the key phrase. When we were shopping for our house something like 10 years ago, it was astonishing how many houses were absolutely trashed. And I’m not talking houses in bad neighborhoods that were cheap rentals either. We’d tour houses that were asking $400,000 and find them just beaten to hell on the inside. One had mushrooms growing in the corner of a bathroom. Another had neglected the roof for so long that every room had severe water damage. It would have required a complete interior demo and remodel just to be habitable (and they wanted 300 grand for it - I’d have been upside down if it were free). That one was probably built in the 60’s or 70’s. Houses or cars, it never ceases to amaze me how many people neglect basic maintenance on the most expensive things they own, but it happens all the time.
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I agree completely. When we bought our house 20+ years ago the older same size house that was good shape in the same neighborhood was going for a good 20% more then the new homes. The older (not in great shape) homes were about 20% lower then the new homes.
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