# ICE vs EV: fill up cost comparison **URL:** \ **Category:** Power/Fuel\ **Created:** [October 31, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340 "2021-10-31T14:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/21 "2021-11-01T13:07:44Z")
> [@vipergg](#): > > Right now it is no better than the 100 MPG carburator from the 70’s that never made it to fruition . That was a total scam. These battery technologies are highly funded. I personally know of 4 battery startups in the Boston area. All have connections to MIT or Harvard. And I’m sure there are even more. I think the one that’s the most promising is Graphene battery. That could be the big game changer. No one has done a lot of research into batteries for large applications in decades. There haven’t been this many companies doing the research - EVER. The investors know that who ever comes out on top is going make BILLIONS AND BILLIONS. ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/22 "2021-11-01T14:08:35Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > And that article doesn’t even consider the cost of the batteries! That’s a big omission. The current, common types of rechargeable cells initially cost more than the lifetime cost of the (consumer rate) electricity used to charge them. It’s true for AAA NiMH cells to large lead-acid & lithium, and everything in between. > [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > That’s adding about $15,000 more to the cost of the vehicle. $5000 battery is more realistic for a passenger car. Yet, 50,000 miles is nothing to sniff at. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/23 "2021-11-01T14:10:25Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > And that article doesn’t even consider the cost of the batteries! That’s adding about $15,000 more to the cost of the vehicle. $15,000 at $3 gas and 30 MPG will get you 150,000 miles! Imagine buying a $34,000 gasoline car and being Maybe you should use a web search before you post anything so the people who run this site will not have to hire a fact checker just for you . ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/24 "2021-11-01T14:47:54Z")
> [@circuitsmith](#): > > $5000 battery is more realistic for a passenger car. Please show me where you can get an EV battery (not a hybrid battery) for $5000. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/25 "2021-11-01T14:49:48Z")
I gotcha…I think. I don’t personally know anyone whose sole goal is using less gasoline, all other considerations be damned. But I suppose they exist…somewhere…in another tax bracket 😁 ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/26 "2021-11-01T14:54:01Z")
This says the batteries cost about $200/KWHr in 2018. At best $150 today, I’d think. The Tesla 3 comes with an 82 KWHr pack, which would cost $12,300. [EV batteries | Union of Concerned Scientists (ucsusa.org)](https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/ev-batteries) ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/27 "2021-11-01T15:19:04Z")
> [@Scrapyard-John](#): > > I think. I don’t personally know anyone whose sole goal is using less gasoline, all other considerations be damned. If you drive 30k+ miles a year then gas is a significant part of the vehicle ownership. People buy hybrids or very small vehicles to use LESS GAS. This isn’t new. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/28 "2021-11-01T15:31:17Z")
No, you buy those vehicles to save money by using less gas. The article was about cost of filling up an EV vs filling up with gas, alluding to the fact (whether it’s actually factual or not) that it costs more to fill up the EV. Like I said, not many people will buy a vehicle solely for the purpose to use less (zero for an EV) gasoline. It’s about saving money. ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/29 "2021-11-01T15:47:59Z")
> [@texases](#): > > Please show me where you can get an EV battery (not a hybrid battery) for $5000. Okay $10,000 and 100,000 miles. Does that make you happy? How about $7,000 and 70,000 miles? Is it possible to have general, hypothetical discussion on this form without quibbling over the trivial? ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/30 "2021-11-01T15:53:11Z")
> [@Scrapyard-John](#): > > Like I said, not many people will buy a vehicle solely for the purpose to use less (zero for an EV) gasoline. It’s about saving money. World wide - EV sales are dominated pollution concerns. Especially in China and Europe. The US still isn’t big on EV vehicles yet. Overall cost isn’t the reason people are buying an EV because they are more expensive then a comparable ICE vehicle (for now). That’s the determining factor why people are NOT buying them -they cost too much. They early EV’s were not about saving money. They were about performance. Tesla’s first EV was the fastest 0-60 production vehicle at the time. If we don’t switch to EV vehicles then my grand kids may see ICE vehicles, but their kids or grand kids won’t because of zero oil left. Oil is finite. Takes millions of years to make. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/31 "2021-11-01T16:06:46Z")
> [@circuitsmith](#): > > Is it possible to have general, hypothetical discussion on this form without quibbling over the trivial? Saying a battery costs $5000 when it costs $12,000+ isn’t trivial to me… ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/32 "2021-11-01T17:22:21Z")
You’re just hung up on one particular car; one particular number. Maybe one day you’ll learn to step back and see the forest. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/33 "2021-11-01T17:23:04Z")
Still waiting for any actual information on that forest… ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/34 "2021-11-01T17:25:51Z")
> [@texases](#): > > Still waiting for any actual information on that forest… The information is right there, in the previous posts, just past your nose. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/35 "2021-11-01T17:30:49Z")
OK, I’m baffled. You provided no fact to support your claim that passenger car EV batteries cost $5000. Right? I’ve provided facts regarding the cost of batteries, and here’s an invoice for a 2021 Tesla 3 battery replacement (with a rebuilt battery, no less) that cost over $16,000. So what am I missing? I’ve got nothing against EVs, just the misrepresentation of their actual cost. [How much does a Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost? | Current Automotive](https://www.currentautomotive.com/how-much-does-a-tesla-model-3-battery-replacement-cost/?fbclid=IwAR2RO-8bm-QHxKd77a6y4X4RM_mZfrEe5ESVraLKdaYOgVLjJhuF4-xEWNs) ---
**Author:** ![circuitsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/circuitsmith/32/40376_2.png) [@circuitsmith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/circuitsmith)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/36 "2021-11-01T18:12:57Z")
> [@texases](#): > > your claim that passenger car EV batteries cost $5000. I made no such claim. Plug in any d@mn number you like, my original point stands. As long as you insist on carrying on a conversation in response to self-invented statements I see no point of my presence here. You, Volvo and NH Mike are just made for each other. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/37 "2021-11-01T18:35:04Z")
OK, now I understand your post, you were taking about the incremental cost, not the cost of the battery. I still think $5,000 is too low. A VW ID4 starts at about $40,000, the larger Tiguan at about $27,000-$30,000. The Kia Niro starts at $25,000, the Niro EV at $40.000. I can’t get to your $5000 figure. ---
**Author:** ![old\_mopar\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6bbea6/32.png) [@old\_mopar\_guy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/old_mopar_guy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/38 "2021-11-01T18:46:48Z")
Then it’s long past time to require the utilities to convert all coal generation facilities to natural gas. It’s not that difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/39 "2021-11-01T18:58:16Z")
Nat gas is still a fossil fuel. Less particulate release than coal, though. So that’s cool. Of course, you ban coal, you drive up the demand (and price) of natural gas. Hard to give up fossil fuels completely. ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340/40 "2021-11-01T19:09:59Z")
I think we could generate plenty of electrical power by shooting a big generator up in space above the equator. A giant serpentine belt could be run around the equator to a pulley on the generator. The power would be transmitted by big cables from the generator to slip.rings on either side of the equator and the power could be taken off the slip rings One positive effect is that the rotation of the Earth would slow down making the days last longer and at my age, I want the days to last as long as possible. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-vs-ev-fill-up-cost-comparison/180340.md?page=3)