# ICE not dead yet **URL:** \ **Category:** Auto Type/Class\ **Created:** [January 21, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637 "2023-01-21T18:23:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/1 "2023-01-21T18:23:01Z")
General Motors announced recently that they are building a new V8 engine plant in an existing facility for use in pickups and SUVS. They are investing over $900 million at four plants. Most of it goes to the engine plant while the other three will build parts for the new V8. There must be a lot of life left in ICE power for GM to spend almost a billion dollars on the technology. > **[GM to sink over $900M into 4 plants, Flint to get new engine](https://apnews.com/article/general-motors-co-bay-city-rochester-defiance-business-5c7a2a5b06bd2821a549aa319b99ec89)** > > FLINT, Mich. (AP) — General Motors says it will spend more than $900 million to update four factories, with the bulk going to an engine plant in Flint, Michigan, to build the next-generation V8 for big pickup trucks and SUVs. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/2 "2023-01-21T18:34:30Z")
Apparently GM is not as “All in” for EVs as we were told! ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/3 "2023-01-21T19:00:25Z")
Note that they refer to the _goal_ of full electrification by 2035 for passenger vehicles. We can weasel word _passenger vehicle_ to limit the full EV lineup too. ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/4 "2023-05-16T21:46:44Z")
Imagine massive battery replacments being be due, along with shortages in minerals needed to produce lithium batteries, with a decrease in oil prices happening all at the same time! Maybe 5 to 8 years from now? So 2028 to 2031 for the big EV crash. I know lithium iron phosphate has excellent cycle life, but if its life span is still limited to 10-15 years, that’s not good for a car. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/5 "2023-05-16T23:33:11Z")
There is no shortage of lithium in the mineral state. Besides, lithium-ion batteries with liquid electrolyte are fire hazards. The liquid electrolyte is what starts the fires. Solid state batteries will be even less prone to fires than the usually safe LFP batteries and replacements for expensive metals like lithium are actively pursued. ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2023, 11:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/6 "2023-05-16T23:51:36Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > with a decrease in oil prices happening all at the same time! That is good news, the mining equipment is going to consume a lot of fuel. ---
**Author:** ![auto-owner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/50afbb/32.png) [@auto-owner](https://community.cartalk.com/u/auto-owner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/7 "2023-05-17T02:01:24Z")
There is still just no substitute for fire in the hole. How can we tool monkeys ever possibly do our thing without burning a whole lotta fuel? ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/8 "2023-05-17T02:49:25Z")
> [@auto-owner](#): > > There is still just no substitute for fire in the hole. > How can we tool monkeys ever possibly do our thing without burning a whole lotta fuel? I know that EVs have there place in the world and there are some very fast ones, But I am sorry, there is nothing like the sound of thousand(s) of HP and raw torque twisting the chassis and pulling the wheels off the ground… But watching a few EV vehicle even with a 1000 HP/torque going down the track, well it would get boring very quickly as they will all preform the same… ICE is to unpredictable and hard to manage even with all the sensors and electronics the ProMods are running today… I know I could word that much better but if you get it you get it… If not then you never will… lol ---
**Author:** ![wolyrobb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wolyrobb/32/45497_2.png) [@wolyrobb](https://community.cartalk.com/u/wolyrobb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 4:48am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/9 "2023-05-17T04:48:46Z")
As far as I know there’s only one prototype but a company in Afghanistan is working on a car powered by a Toyota Corolla 4cyl, with the help of a technical institute. No performance claims but there are video’s of it driving on closed courses. Kabul-based manufacturer _Entop_ unveiled the very first Afghan-built supercar last week. Called the Mada 9, this first example is the hand-built product of hard work by more than 30 engineers from Entop and the local Afghanistan Technical Vocational Institute (ATVI) spanning over the last five years. And now, we can see what it looks like. ![Entop](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/4/f/4f4b61e5e96454b840f3aa80e97043837b317c55.jpeg) [Afghanistan’s First Supercar is a Toyota Corolla-Powered NSX-McLaren-Looking Mashup (thedrive.com)](https://www.thedrive.com/news/afghanistans-first-supercar-is-a-toyota-corolla-powered-nsx-mclaren-mashup) ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 5:04am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/10 "2023-05-17T05:04:19Z")
> [@wolyrobb](#): > > powered by a Toyota Corolla 4cyl I love my Corollas but what kind of Boost and RPMs are they doing with that little engine that could to have it power a 200 MPH car… I would love the total specs on the engine and what all was done to make that kind of power… I know they haven’t released any power numbers etc, but you don’t make a 200 MPH Supercar with a 120 HP stock engine… lol ---
**Author:** ![wolyrobb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wolyrobb/32/45497_2.png) [@wolyrobb](https://community.cartalk.com/u/wolyrobb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 5:21am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/11 "2023-05-17T05:21:37Z")
As far as I’m aware they’ve only made it run and drive but haven’t released any specs at all. Other than being a 1.8l there’s little info. Did find a shot of the engine installation ![entop2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/7/4/740b4e762bb953a7996f0f6ed5e6813a43b9f9d3.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/12 "2023-05-17T12:58:37Z")
Lotus has been using Toyota engines for a long time. The Emira has a supercharged 3.5L V6, also used in the previous Evora, which also used the NA 3.5L. The Elise use NA and supercharged 1.8L Toyota engines. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/13 "2023-05-17T14:04:34Z")
I would call the Lotus Elise with a SC 218 HP 140 mph top speed a Sports car not a Supercar… A Supercar is a 200+ mph… A Supercar has a very quick 0-60mph (which the Lotus does) and a very fast (200+ mph) top speed (which the Lotus Elise does not have)… ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/14 "2023-05-18T15:51:19Z")
I said the Elise uses a supercharger in one configuration, not that it is a supercar. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/15 "2023-05-18T20:08:09Z")
My point was, what are they having to do to the poor little 1.8 to squeeze over 500 HP out of it and make it live??? Curious minds want to know… I have joked with my go fast buddies about SCing my little Matrix/Vibe 1.8L 5 speed and wondered how much you can squeeze out of it without hurting it long term… but never enough to look into it… lol Big difference is their 2zz vs my 1zz engine… ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/16 "2023-05-18T20:44:03Z")
Lotus doesn’t produce gobs of horsepower. They build a 2000# car and put a 250 HP engine in it. It’s built for handling with brisk acceleration, not straight line acceleration. The Evora GT has 416HP from a 3.5L supercharged Toyota engine and goes 0-60 in 3.8 sec. It weighs in at 3175#. Is that more like it? ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/17 "2023-05-18T21:39:49Z")
I think you are not understanding my question/point with the prototype… Afghanistan’s First **Supercar** is a **Toyota Corolla-Powered** NSX-McLaren-Looking Mashup This doesn’t have anything to do with Lotus or any other engine other than the Toyota 1.8L Corolla engine being able to push a Supercar to over 200 MPH… I simply stated that I want to know how they got the little 1.8L Corolla engine (NOT any other engine in the world or vehicle) to make enough HP (500+HP) to power the prototype to over 200 MPH to be called a Supercar and live long enough to be in a low production vehicle… nothing more nothing less… I do think it is cool Lotus uses Toyota engines some… and getting 450 HP out of a normally 300 HP with a SC shouldn’t be very hart, only takes around 6-/ pounds of boost to get 50% more power… Again all very interesting and cool and I am enjoying talking about it but I still want to know about the 1.8L going 200+… lol ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/18 "2023-05-18T23:05:48Z")
I didn’t look at the video links. Is that 500 hp quoted there? I can’t find any spec online except from the link below. The Toyota E120 2000 engine with a turbocharger puts out 189 hp according to their source. I don’t know anything about 21motoring. It appears to be in India, Pakistan, or Pakistan. > **[2023 Entop Mada 9 Price, Engine, Top Speed, 0-60 Mph, Features & Specs -...](https://21motoring.com/2023-entop-mada-9-price-engine-top-speed-0-60-mph-features-specs/)** > > Afghanistan is here with its first ever made-in-Afghanistan supercar. The 2023 Entop Mada 9 will pack Toyota Corolla's 2000 engine ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/ice-not-dead-yet/188637/19 "2023-05-19T01:39:25Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > I didn’t look at the video links. Is that 500 hp quoted there? No sorry, the 500+HP comes from the bases that Supercars have between 500-900 HP in order to reach their top speeds of 200+ MPH… _What qualifies a car as a supercar?_ _The term is, to some extent, subjective, but most supercars **offer somewhere between 500 and 900 horsepower, reach top speeds of 200+ mph, hit 60 mph from 0 in roughly three seconds, and weigh between 2,200 and 3,700 pounds**._ So if the 2023 Entop only makes 162 HP w/top speed of only around 155 MPH then by very loose definition it is not a Supercar and only a Sportscar… So that just took all the wind out of my sails… lol The 1st link didn’t show any specs, just called it a Supercar… I missed the 189 HP somewhere, either way it’s a long way from 500HP… Still a cool car and I would jump at the chance to drive it hard, but I wouldn’t pay $80,000 for a hyped up Corolla as much as I like them… But a 162 or 189 HP engine swap would be fun in the old Matrix/Vibe… hehe