How would you deal with this dealer?

Maintenance/Repairs
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21

You want a vehicle in which installing a battery takes more than 5 minutes? I’ll name several that I have sitting right at my house.
A SAAB 900 with the battery sunk down low beneath the turbocharger, a couple of annoying battery holddowns to wrestle with, and a very careful removal process to avoid breaking the O2 sensor.
A 2nd generation Camaro that requires removal of the fender brace before the battery can be removed.
This is all assuming the cable ends don’t fall apart, holddowns rusted in place, and so on.)

Now, as to the fee on the battery and keep in mind that at this point none of us know (drumroll) the details on that charge. (And I said nothing at all about charging a NEW battery)
When I worked for dealers you know how we operated with an electrical problem?
Step 1. Charge existing battery for minimum half an hour.
Step 2. Load test battery.
Step 3. Test alternator and inspect belt, etc.
Step 4. Test starter current draw.
Step 5. Test for parasitic current draw. (This means verify if a problem exists, not actually tracking it down.)

For the above we charged .5 hours and I think that’s not only fair but the main purpose is to cover the bases.
No customer or mechanic likes to replace a weak battery and then have the car come back a few days later for a no-start due to a worn starter motor, shaky alternator, or parasitic draw. You clear the deck in one shot and make sure when that customer leaves that everything is operating as it should, electrically speaking.

In the mechanic world .2 hours is about the minimum on any labor operation. (If the scenario that the 180 involves any labor.) As I said, 20 bucks labor at a 100 dollar per flat rate hour is what that would come up to and is entirely justifiable. A car dealer cannot work on the same business model that Wal Mart does, which is installing them free I assume. The WM guys get paid per hour worked; a dealer mechanic does not.

At this point the 180 has not been broken down. Maybe you can do that for me.

22

Okay, fair point(s). How long does it take in a 2002 Passat GLX?

One of my uncles had a Chevy that needed the engine hoisted up to change spark plugs, but that’s not the norm. That’s called an outlier in statistics.

I’m going to quote Whitey:
“this is why, when you think you have a dead battery, you get it tested. You don’t just replace a dead battery without getting it tested, which most auto parts stores will do for free. You probably never needed a battery, but good luck proving it now.”

Why do you charge a NEW battery? Yes, I know batteries self-discharge, but that’s usually not a problem, because usually when you buy a new battery it just works.

Most of the people in this thread seem to come down on the side that swapping in a battery in a 2002 Passat GLX should cost $180, and are basically making excuses for the shop.

The OP, on the other hand, has a strong suspicion that the shop doesn’t know what they’re doing. I’m noticing recently on this board a strong tendency to support the shop with the least possible evidence. I find this troubling.

At this point the OP has a new alternator, and a new battery, yet the original problem hasn’t been fixed. I find this troubling.

23
One of my uncles had a Chevy that needed the engine hoisted up to change spark plugs, but that's not the norm.

That would be the Chevy Monza with the 305V8 stuffed in there. The car was the replacement for the Chevy Vega after it’s downfall.

Why do you charge a NEW battery?

Because sometimes people leave a light on in a car (or something that’s putting a drain on the battery). This will drain the battery and you need it charged.

The OP, on the other hand, has a strong suspicion that the shop doesn’t know what they’re doing. I’m noticing recently on this board a strong tendency to support the shop with the least possible evidence. I find this troubling.

You read the same post I just read???..Even OK (who usually sides with the mechanic) said that someone dropped the ball.

The cost is what many people complain about. Have you priced out a battery lately. Mine is starting to act up so I’ve been looking around. The CHEAPEST I can find is a little under $100. I buy from the dealer and install it myself it’s $150…And then they want to charge me $100 to install it. I can buy one at WallMart for $95 and install it myself. Wallmart will install it for $25 bringing the cost to $120.

24

“Why do you charge a NEW battery? Yes, I know batteries self-discharge, but that’s usually not a problem, because usually when you buy a new battery it just works.”

Exactly how old is each and every “new” battery in stock at each and every battery retailer ?

When I purchase a new battery I buy the one with the most current (no pun intended) date of manufacture (sticker on battery) and charge the battery when I get it home. This process assures me the best service life possible with the new unit. Also, it is best for the car’s charging system. Often a battery dealer will just pull a battery off the shelf and sell it (oldest stock first).

CSA

25

Here’s a write up on Passat battery replacement.

It doesn’t even matter how much time it actually takes. Assume it takes 2 minutes flat for the sake of discussion. The time for the mechanic starts while he’s waiting for the dispatcher to send out a job. He then , clocks in, goes to the lot, searches for the car, drives it into the shop (assuming it starts and does not have to be pushed), stands at the parts counter while awaiting the battery, installs it, resets things, takes the car back out to the lot, clocks out, processes the paperwork, and finally is done with it. That scenario is omitting any diagnostics, problems that crop up, and so on.

CSA is also correct about batteries being date coded. Sitting on the shelf causes them to sulfate and it’s always possible that a new battery can be run down. Years ago I bought a brand new BMW motorcycle and the battery on it went south 30 minutes after I proudly took delivery of the bike. Fast forward a number of years and yet another battery (Sears Diehard) for that bike went south 2 days after buying it.

As to my siding with mechanics it may be construed that I do so because I are one. That’s not the case at all. I routinely rip mechanics, shops, and service writers/advisors for what is apparent utter BS or shaky methods.
However, I’ve done it enough to know that the majority of people who complain about a car problem will often omit details and skew things a bit in order to get a biased opinion or their lack of mechanical knowledge prevents them from presenting an accurate picture of what really happened. Consider it human nature.

One example would be the guy who ran his 17k miles VW out of oil, threw 2 rods through the engine block, and then refilled it with fresh oil/filter while claiming that “no, it never made any noises at all”.
(Yep, he blamed us and VW for this problem and would not see it any other way.)

In the complaints people made to the regional offices I can say that in every single instance the complainee always, and I means always, did not give the complete story. Once regional heard “the rest of the story” as Paul Harvey would say, any chance of assistance was history. The guy in the VW example above was one of them.

Offhand, it does sound to me like the dealer in the OP’s situation has botched a diagnosis and I stick with that but without car in hand and the minutae details the door is always open a sliver for extenuating circumstances.

26

Nothing much to add but the last battery I bought was a Delco under the seat type with outside venting. It was $150. You don’t get these at Walmart for $75. Even my lawn mower battery was $40. A lot of the cars now have odd sized batteries that are just not the standard 24s stocked at Walmart. So, $180 installed? Maybe not so bad if done correctly.

27

I replaced an european-style battery last year with a correctly fitted Sears Die-hard battery that cost $135.00 carry-out. That did not include installation charges. I can see $180 for a battery at the dealer.

And, although I find $690 for an alternator a fair bit high on the surface, remember that includes a brand-new OEM alternator at dealer price for a VW, not remanufactured like you find at Autozone or even NAPA, plus installation at dealer labor rates. Doesn’t seem too outrageous to me.

28

I remember the first time I heard a customer go ballistic over the price on a new Subaru transmission. His car was only a few months out of warranty, only had 35k miles on it, and the automatic blew up beyond repair due to no fault at all on the part of the car owner.

The price on that unit was almost 5 grand (4950 to be exact, not including fluid, gaskets, labor, taxes, etc) and he was enraged. I don’t blame the guy for one minute and even went to bat for him with Subaru of America. SOA would not budge and left this guy hanging, which led to a repair and his stating it would be (language deleted) Subaru he ever owned.

Point being that the dealer COST on the transmission was 3995 dollars. Once he came down to the shop and saw the behind the scenes part of this his anger eased at us and was all directed at SOA.
It was bad enough to face this kind of expense anyway but to face it on a like new, low miles Subaru that had been pampered and suffered a failure that the owner had no control over was horrible.

29

I’m not a mechanic, but one time I experienced a similar problem with my old car… battery kept dying… replaced it numerous times… after a bunch of excuses and high-priced solutions by yahoo big chain mechanics, I took it to my local mechanic… he tightened a belt. Problem solved. Cars are much more sophisticated now but the point being, look for the obvious, simple solution. See if you can find a good local mechanic who doesn’t jump to expensive conclusions for the sake of making a buck… Then take the “solution” (repair bill) back to the dealer and ask for your money back. Have your new reliable local mechanic hook-up the radio. And never go back to that dealer again.

30

If you read through these posts on a even semi-regular basis, you’ll see very often we (almost all) extol the virtues of finding a good local mechanic, and developing a report with them (him, her, the business). In almost every case (not all) you’ll get a lower cost. They’ll become familiar with your vehicle and you.

My S-I-L had an older Saturn that she’d ignored. She was in Colorado, and I was in Florida. She knew nothing about cars, other than the gas cap. One day the oil light came on, at 75, and the engine quickly killed itself. She couldn’t have stopped fast enough - the damage was already done. In a panic, she called me, and from FL, I found her a good mechanic (local to her), got her engine replaced, and she took care of that car for another 120K+. They treated her well, got her flowers, the whole 9. She traded in that car last year, with almost 350K on it. She used them every time it was due a service, every time she had a problem that didn’t seem quite right, and their relationship went very well.

31

"One of my uncles had a Chevy that needed the engine hoisted up to change spark plugs, but that’s not the norm.

That would be the Chevy Monza with the 305V8 stuffed in there. The car was the replacement for the Chevy Vega after it’s downfall."

The model name didn’t seem germane to me. Thank heavens a kindly stranger trundled along and saved me a phone call or a google search.

"Why do you charge a NEW battery?

Because sometimes people leave a light on in a car (or something that’s putting a drain on the battery). This will drain the battery and you need it charged."

Once the battery is installed and drained it’s not new.

32

Whoa $690 bucks for an alternator? Usually you can get one at an autoparts store for a lot cheaper and if you bring the old alternator back to the store you bought the new one from you can get up to an $80 rebate on it. I’m not a mechanic but when I take my car to the shop and they keep coming up with new things to fix on it for the essentially the same problem, I’d be suspicious.

33

You fail to see the obvious reason for the price differential on an alternator. A VW dealer will be using a brand new from VW Bosch alternator and they are expensive.
Buying even a new alternator from a local parts house will be cheaper because the dealer and the part house use differenti suppliers and have a different business model.

If that dealer wants 690 for an alternator odds are the dealer paid 300-400 for it because VW, like every other car maker, is not providing parts to the dealers on the cheap.

At this point it’s not clear what that 690 is for. Alternator only; or alternator along with testing and labor to change it?

Very few posts on this forum provide basic details, much less the minutae. The minutae can also make a huge difference in an opinion.

34

Follow-up:
a) in the passat, the battery is buried next to the fire-wall and requires removing a number of components to get at it. The reason I took the car to VW was that Sears wanted $160 to install a battery, and I thought that at that price, I’d pay the extra sawbuck in the belief that VW would know its car better than Sears would. Dealer swears he did alternator and parasitic draw tests before selling the battery. He then claimed the alternator AND RADIO problems were completely unrelated. Yes, I was screwed.

b) Don’t know if radio really has short, but as of now, the dealer has had the car for a week and I’m in a loaner (at no charge - well, let me rephrase that - at no cost to me). They have not given me any feedback on progress they may have made (wondering if car is getting sunshine treatment).

c) I expect them to tell me that they cannot isolate the problem. We are not hopeful for a satisfactory conclusion to this small drama.